Powerful Tools for Biotechnology - Biochips -LRB- Chang Chiung - fang PERSON / photos by Hsueh Chi - kuang PERSON / tr. by Robert Taylor PERSON -RRB- The enterovirus detection biochip developed by DR GPE . Chip Biotechnology PERSON takes only six hours to give hospitals the answer to whether a sample contains enterovirus , and if it is the deadly strain Entero 71 ORG . Worldwide ORG , biotechnology is a rising star of the industrial stage . In Taiwan GPE , in recent years DATE the Ministry of Economic Affairs ORG , the National Science Council ORG and the National Health Research Institutes ORG have been strongly pursuing " biochip " research programs . In the last two years DATE , three CARDINAL biochip companies have also been set up in Taiwan GPE . Just what are biochips ? What use are they to mankind ? Why do so many people have such confidence in their future ? What is the current state of this field in Taiwan GPE ?

And what are the prospects for future development ? Let 's take a closer look . In just a few years ' DATE time , or a few decades DATE , the following scenario could become a reality : When you 're feeling under the weather , all you need to do is buy a diagnostic biochip from the chemist 's shop , put a drop of urine onto it , and you will find out what is wrong with you - a health check will be as easy as a pregnancy test today DATE . Everyone will carry with them a biochip bearing a record and analysis of their own DNA . From it one will not only be able to see one 's own physical condition , but even to predict what diseases one CARDINAL will have in the future . It will be like an ID card , needed when looking for work , buying insurance or even seeking a partner for love and marriage . Laboratories will no longer need all kinds of large instruments , for all stages of their experiments will be carried out on little biochips , saving time , effort and money . Today DATE , the scenes outlined above may just seem like pipe dreams . But these dreams could yet come true , and the key to that happening is those little biochips .

A dream come true ? Developments such as the sequencing of the human genome and the rapid development of genetic engineering have spawned biotechnology industries like bioinformatics , biomaterials and pharmaceutical engineering , which have emerged as the rising stars of 21st - century DATE industry . As part of the government 's efforts to promote the biotechnology industry in Taiwan GPE , in July 1999 DATE the Industrial Technology Research Institute ORG -LRB- ITRI -RRB- set up the Biomedical Engineering Center ORG -LRB- BMEC -RRB- to actively develop biomedical engineering technologies . Biochips are one CARDINAL of the core technologies in the field . BMEC general director Dr. Johnsee Lee PERSON says that the ITRI ORG 's four - year DATE R&D program in biochip applications and technology is now in its second year DATE . Its initial objectives are mainly focused on developing sensor chips to screen for infectious diseases , while later goals will be to develop technologies to test for genetic diseases and cancers . As well as this new research establishment , in the two years DATE since September 1998 three DATE commercial companies have been set up in Taiwan GPE to make biochips : U - Vision Biotech ORG , Taiwan Genome Sciences ORG and DR GPE . Chip Biotechnology . Of these , DR GPE . Chip attracted much attention this year DATE when it developed a chip to detect enteroviruses , a deadly epidemic of which has gripped Taiwan GPE over the last two years DATE .

Fever chips DR GPE . Chip Bio PERSON -technology was set up in September 1998 DATE . Vice president Wang Shin - hwan PERSON states that the company successfully applied to the Ministry of Economic Affairs ORG for funding to help it pursue a development program for enterovirus detection chips and test technology . Today DATE , the enterovirus chip is in the testing phase , and DR GPE . Chip is collaborating with Taipei Veterans General Hospital ORG to obtain samples with which to establish the accuracy of the chip . What is so remarkable about the enterovirus detection chip when compared with traditional test methods ? There are 68 CARDINAL known forms of non-polio enterovirus . The detection chip does not simply determine whether a person is infected with enterovirus , but can also differentiate between different virus groups , for instance showing whether a sample contains the deadly Entero 71 ORG virus , or Coxsackie A16 PERSON , which is easily confused with Entero 71 ORG . In addition , the chip and its accompanying PCR kit greatly reduce the time required for testing . Wang Shin - hwan PERSON notes that traditional bacterial and viral cultures take seven to ten days DATE to prepare , and even with the newer molecular biology testing techniques it takes three days DATE to get a result . But DR GPE . Chip has developed methods to reduce the sample preparation time , which enables a result to be obtained in only six hours when used in combination with their enterovirus chip .

Furthermore , the initial results of joint trials by DR GPE . Chip , Chang Gung University PERSON and National Cheng Kung University ORG suggest that the chip is over a thousand times more sensitive than traditional test methods . " In addition to enterovirus , we plan to develop chips to detect other infectious diseases such as hepatitis B , hepatitis C and HIV , " says Wang Shin - hwan PERSON . Apart from the enterovirus chip , which is already at the testing stage , the ITRI 's Molecular Biomedical Technology Division ORG is also conducting research and development on biochip applications and technology . Research program director Pan Chao - chi PERSON states that at present they are actively developing a " fever chip " with a wide range of applications . Pan ORG explains that in clinical practice , the causes of fever are difficult to quickly diagnose . A " fever chip " bearing the DNA of common fever - causing viruses and bacteria could be used to determine the cause of the fever and the type of pathogen involved would be a valuable tool . However , Pan ORG points out that because of the difficulties in substantially reducing the time needed for sample preparation , the usefulness of such a fever chip is still limited , so that it can not yet be widely promoted . Where the real money is At present , most applications for biochips are in academic research and the development of new pharmaceutical drugs .

Demand for them is growing rapidly . Johnsee Lee PERSON says that according to US GPE market research estimates , the worldwide annual DATE consumption of microarray chips is currently around 250,000 CARDINAL ; in two years DATE this is expected to grow to 1.2 million CARDINAL . Based on a market price per chip of US$ 1,000 MONEY , the size of the world market in biochips could grow to US$ 1.2 billion MONEY in 2003 DATE , and to US$ 40 billion MONEY over the next decade DATE . Thus some people have set their sights on the biochip market , and believe that following Taiwan GPE 's success in the semiconductor field , the island could go on to be a major center for contract manufacture of biochips . Be that as it may , the small number of biochip companies so far established in Taiwan GPE still find their market in domestic research establishments and pharmaceuticals manufacturers . Although they are also actively developing overseas markets , what interests them most is not biochips per se , nor are they content merely to be contract manufacturers . " The chips are only a tool , and the big money is not in chip sales . What counts is the R&D behind them . " Jerry Huang PERSON , executive vice president of U - Vision Biotech ORG , reveals that U - Vision ORG , which was set up in September 1999 DATE , has signed a contract with the US GPE company Zen - Bio PERSON to jointly develop human adipocyte cDNA microarray chips . Huang PERSON states that research in recent years DATE has revealed that adipocytes -LRB- fat cells -RRB- are active regulators of the energy balance in the body , and play an important role in disorders such as obesity , diabetes , osteoporosis and cardiovascular disease .

Thus it is hoped that research into human adipocytes can help in the search for drugs and other therapies to treat these disorders . Apart from this , U - Vision ORG is also conducting a one - year DATE bacterial genome project , which aims to map the genome of a certain drug - resistant bacterium as a basis for developing new vaccines and drugs . Drug development Taiwan Genome Sciences ORG -LRB- TGS -RRB- , which was set up in November 1999 DATE as a joint venture by the Uni-President Enterprises Group ORG , Yuen Foong Yu PERSON and Tuntex Groups PERSON , only entered the biotechnology fray in April of this year DATE . CEO Andrew Kuo PERSON says the investors came to the view that Taiwan GPE needs to develop its biotechnology industries , and therefore they combined their resources to make a long - term investment in the field . TGS ORG 's strategy is to invest in a number of US GPE genome research companies , and to sign technology transfer agreements and chip production contracts with them . Kuo PERSON comments that contract production of chips is merely a service activity and a source of income for the company - TGS 's ultimate goal is in doing R&D work to identify gene sequences as targets for developing new drugs . Kuo PERSON states that at present , the number of known target sequences for disease - treating drugs is only around 500 , but as the human genome is mapped out this number can be expected to increase tenfold . Currently , TGS ORG has its sights set mainly on doing research into diseases which are especially prevalent in Asia LOC , such as liver and stomach cancers .

A chip revolution However , the potential uses for biochips go far beyond the medical applications outlined above . Dr. Johnsee Lee PERSON , who as well as heading up the Biomedical Engineering Center ORG is also general director of Union Chemical Laboratories ORG , a research institute under the ITRI ORG umbrella , says that due to biochips ' advantages of miniaturization , parallelism , speed and the ability to reveal the " big picture , " they have a very wide range of applications . They can not only be used as a research tool in biological , medical and pharmaceutical research and development , and as a clinical diagnostic tool for doing health checks , testing for infectious pathogens , screening blood and so on , but they can also find uses in such areas as defense applications , police forensic work , environmental testing and food testing . Biochips come in two CARDINAL main types : the microfluidics chip or " lab - on - a - chip , " and the microarray chip or " DNA chip . " Microfluidics chips bring together biotechnology , microelectronics , micromachining and other technologies to integrate the functions of multiple laboratory instruments onto a single chip in miniaturized form . Meanwhile on microarray chips , biological molecules such as gene segments , oligonucleotides , proteins or antibodies are bound to the chip surface in an array of tiny spots , and a single chip may carry many tens of thousands CARDINAL of such spots . BMEC researcher Pan Chao - chi PERSON uses the example of blood screening for a blood bank to illustrate the difference between the two CARDINAL kinds of chips . To test a blood sample using a microarray chip , the sample must first go through many preparatory steps such as purification , nucleotide extraction , copying , amplification and labeling before being put onto the chip where the " hybridization " reaction takes place . Finally , the results are analyzed using a detection system .

Hence these chips are only suitable for use in the laboratory . In contrast , with a lab - on - a - chip system , all the laboratory preparation stages will be done on the chip itself , so that the user need only place a drop of blood directly onto the chip to obtain a result . At present , microfluidics technology is not yet mature , and no such chips have been launched as commercial products anywhere . But , says Pan Chao - chih PERSON : " This is the way future biochip development will go . " The poor man 's chip Future prospects also seem infinite for microarray chips , which are already widely used in laboratories and research establishments . Jerry Huang PERSON notes that DNA chips are an indispensable research tool in molecular biology . On one CARDINAL little biochip , tens of thousands CARDINAL of gene segments can be arranged to simultaneously detect the expression of tens of thousands CARDINAL of genes . In other words , whereas in the past researchers had to investigate each gene individually , today DATE , using biochips , they can obtain test results for tens of thousands CARDINAL of genes at once .

In particular , biochips not only can speed the pace of research , but can also replace laboratory animals such as rats and rabbits in many experiments , with tests being carried out directly on human genes on the chip . Thus as research tools biochips are not only convenient and quick , but also more humane . Dr. Konan Peck PERSON , an assistant research fellow at Academia Sinica 's ORG Institute of Biomedical Sciences ORG -LRB- IBMS -RRB- , says that biochips need to be made more widely available as a molecular biology research tool . With this in mind , Peck PERSON has developed nylon - based biochips which have been called " the poor man 's biochip , " since they cost a third ORDINAL less than glass chips . Apart from the material itself being cheaper , the nylon chips use a visible - spectrum colorimetric system to display results , so that they can be read using an ordinary optical scanner , which costs 50 - 70 % PERCENT less than using a special laser detector . The nylon membrane biochips currently produced by TGS ORG and U - Vision Biotech ORG are all derived from the technology developed by Konan Peck PERSON . Cutting edge Can Taiwan GPE really repeat its success in the semiconductor industry , to become a major production center for biochips ? BMEC director Johnsee Lee PERSON observes that the level of scientific and technical know - how required for biochip production is very high , so that the opportunities for contract manufacture are limited . However , due to Taiwan GPE 's early entry into biochip research and development , and the high state of development of its semiconductor industry , the island is well supplied with relevant technology and skills .

Thus , says Lee PERSON , " Taiwan GPE should have opportunities to enter this field not merely as a contract manufacturer . " The potential and importance of biochips is plain to see , but in this new , interdisciplinary industry , there are still many obstacles and difficulties to overcome . Apart from the fact that the technology is not yet mature , and that generally accepted , mutually compatible international standards have not yet emerged , the biggest bottleneck for biochips at the moment is the many thousands CARDINAL of patents which have been taken out in the field , which limit the avenues available to each player . " Because this area is a patents minefield , it 's impossible to create a product which from start to finish does n't infringe on anyone else 's patents , " says Johnsee Lee PERSON . In his view , this problem may be resolved in the future by the exchange of patented technologies between players . In other words , at this stage companies must actively carry out research and development , and obtain international patents , in order to have bargaining chips in future negotiations . At present , the BMEC has over 10 CARDINAL patents pending in the areas of microfluidics biochips , chip surface processing technology and probe design and applications . Pushing the envelope Although at their present stage of development , biochips are already a great help to researchers , they are still far removed from ordinary people 's lives .

But one CARDINAL day they will play an important role in all our lives . " Applications and commercialization are our goal , " says Johnsee Lee PERSON . He says that only if research results are commercialized does research produce an economic payback . Equally , to have a really broad market biochips need to go beyond the laboratory researcher , and into hospitals , clinics and homes , and to individual users . Lee PERSON points out that before biochips will be worth commercializing , sample preparation needs to be made convenient , reading results must be simple and easy , the chips ' speed and accuracy must be high , and their cost must be low . He predicts that in one to two years DATE , biochips will be suitable for use in supplemental tests , and after around three years DATE for high - throughput screening ; in five years DATE time it should be possible to develop them into general screening tools which will be as easy to use as the pregnancy test kits on the market today DATE . IBMS associate research fellow Konan Peck PERSON agrees that in the foreseeable future , diagnostic chips will enable everyone to learn their current state of health and know what diseases they may develop in the future . But in a situation where testing technology is ahead of medical treatment technology , the medical problems so discovered may not be treatable . Mankind is always challenging his limits , and when , in the near future , biochips lift the veil of many diseases , the next challenge will have only just begun .

Genteel Journalis -- Thomas Lu PERSON -LRB- Eric Lin PERSON / tr. by Robert Taylor PERSON -RRB- Thomas Lu PERSON is the doyen of the Chinese NORP news media . Still out on the journalistic front lines at 81 CARDINAL , this spry , forthright veteran has an immense zest for life . At 78 CARDINAL , drawing on his astonishingly sharp memory , he completed his reminiscences and " record of emotional regrets . " He is not only one of the " wonders " of Taiwan GPE 's journalistic world , but is also recognized by those of his generation as a gentleman and a " good - looking man . " A person 's looks change with their age and their state of mind . Many friends have told me I look better the older I get . People do n't know that when I was young I had dreadful protruding teeth , but now not only do my teeth no longer show , but the lines of my face have also softened .

People who know me know that there have always been two CARDINAL great loves in my life : the news , and women . Now that I 'm in my 80s DATE , looking back I think I can say I 've done alright in both respects , and I 've learnt that both reporting the news well , and finding favor with women , depend on your character and conduct . Journalism is not just a profession , but should also be a vocation - you have to throw yourself fully into this infinitely broad field of endeavor . Intellectually and spiritually , in work and in love , I have gained experience and fulfilment . I have always remembered the encouragement which Mr. Yu Youren PERSON gave me as a young reporter . He said that to be a fearless champion of social justice , as is expected of a journalist , the most important thing , apart from energy and vitality , is modesty . You have to treat everybody the same , and not be overawed by the great and powerful . A president or a street sweeper deserve the same respect as a human being , and should both be treated the same way . Funnily enough , an unassuming attitude is also advantageous in relations with the opposite sex .

Chinese NORP society is male dominated , and women are mostly regarded as having a subsidiary role . In this kind of unfair situation , an upstanding man should cherish and respect women all the more . A considerate attitude can be expressed in little things . For instance , when you see that a hair has fallen onto a female friend 's shoulder , you should lightly pick it off for her , and throw it away or put it in your pocket . If sincere , this kind of action is attractive in a man . If a woman expresses her liking for you , then no matter whether she is pretty , or whether you find her attractive , you should respond in the same way , and with the same respect . When I was a young reporter stationed in Europe LOC , there was a British NORP woman reporter who liked me very much . Once I was driving her somewhere to report a story when we had an accident , and she suffered some badly broken bones . Although I was n't attracted to her in that way , I went to see her every day in hospital , and this left a deep impression on her of how considerate Chinese NORP men can be . Looking back at my life , I 've hardly had any really bad experiences in my relationships with women , and this is because just as in my professional life , I 've always maintained a self - critical attitude towards my emotions , and always tried to prevent myself acting like a male chauvinist .

Looks are something you are born with , but character is something you can work on , and it can outweigh your appearance . Luo Jialun PERSON , one CARDINAL of the leading lights of the May Fourth Movement ORG , is a famous example . Luo PERSON was not good looking , and was even ridiculed as " looking like a cross between a pig , a dog and a bear . " But he was tremendously well - read , had a beautiful writing style , and for a time he was Chinese NORP ambassador to India GPE . His wife was a universally admired beauty , the envy of all . So I say , " handsome is as handsome does . " I was imprisoned by both the Kuomintang ORG and the Communists NORP , and at times I might have been killed . Perhaps other people in the same situation might have wallowed in self - pity , but I saw it as a rare opportunity in life . In 1951 DATE , in a dark prison cell during a big Communist NORP purge , what came into my mind was not fear of death .

Instead , I wondered what kind of headline my death would merit in the newspapers . " 10,000 CARDINAL Rush to See Lu Executed PERSON " ? Perhaps it was this eternal optimism which changed my frame of mind and my appearance . This is the advice I 'd like to give young people : it 's true that good looks can come from external grooming , wearing nice clothes , or wearing earrings ; and perhaps you can get other people 's attention by creating your own special look . But do n't overdo it . It is appropriate dress , and a temperament developed through study and practice , which really make a man attractive . Tanshui : An Inspiration to Poets , Artists , and Romantics -LRB- Lin PERSON I - hsien / photos by Diago Chiu PERSON / tr. by Phil Newell PERSON -RRB-

In paintings , a white cloud layer swirls over Mt. Kuanyin ; waves on the river drift like a breeze ; a red sun dances on golden water ; a yellow moon sings from a deep purple sky . . . . The Tanshui of illustrations is a place of unblemished beauty , a myth that remains unshakeable . In the 300 CARDINAL - plus years since its founding , this port town - formerly called Huwei , now Tanshui Township - GPE has seen days of prosperity and has also been through a baptism of fire . What makes it special among the 309 CARDINAL urban and rural townships of Taiwan GPE ? How do the people of Tanshui live today DATE ? How do they recall the past ? And how do they see the future ?

" You want to know how Tanshui PERSON has changed ? I would say that the biggest change is that the old streets are gone . " So declares Tu Hsiu - yuan PERSON , proprietor of the Hui Yuan Pharmacy ORG , and also director of the Huwei Cultural and Historical Workshop ORG . His pharmacy is located on what is now called Chungcheng Road FAC , one CARDINAL of the oldest streets , which Tanshui ORG natives still call Huwei Street . Tu PERSON , who has lived his whole life in the old neighborhood , has watched from his doorstep as old shops have refurbished themselves in modern style , and modern shops have adopted the look of the old . For the convenience of cars , the streets have been widened repeatedly . In 1988 DATE , the last train on the old Tanshui Line FAC of the railroad chugged into history , taking that old slower pace of life with it . In 1997 DATE the Tanshui Line of the mass rapid transit system opened , bringing floods of visitors to the town . Yet , while these tourists bring a human touch to the streets on weekends and holidays , on ordinary weekdays the silence is accompanied only by leftover garbage , empty shops , and those Huwei people who refuse to leave their old homes .

The golden age of Huwei There are different explanations as to the origins of the word Huwei , the original name for Tanshui PERSON . Some say it was a transliteration of the place name used by the indigenous people . But others say it comes from a long - gone fishing practice , using a shi hu -LRB- " stone pool " -RRB- . Early fishermen used stones to carve a long , narrow catchment -LRB- the so - called " pool " -RRB- in the sand , waiting for the tide to carry in fish which they could then easily scoop up . Since the place now known as Tanshui PERSON was at the tail end -LRB- wei -RRB- of this stone pool , it came to be called Huwei . Tanshui occupied an important place in the transport network connecting Taiwan GPE to Southeast Asia LOC . Even before the arrival of Westerners NORP in Taiwan GPE , Han NORP Chinese NORP often crossed over from China GPE to Tanshui GPE , which is relatively close to the mainland . Here they engaged in barter trade with the Pingpu GPE -LRB- meaning " plains " -RRB- aborigines , with deer skins and sulphur being the most coveted products . As Western NORP powers turned their eyes to Asia LOC , Tanshui GPE became strategically important .

In the 17th century DATE , first ORDINAL the Spanish NORP , and then the Dutch NORP , built forts here as symbols of their claims to territorial control . In the mid-17th century DATE , China GPE took control of Taiwan GPE , and closed Tanshui PERSON to international trade . Later , as a result of the Sino - French war of 1884 DATE , Tanshui PERSON was again opened up to Western NORP access . During Tanshui 's golden age , large and small boats were constantly coming and going in the harbor , and it was not unusual to see enormous steamships . In the latter part of the Qing dynasty DATE , Tanshui PERSON was the largest port in Taiwan GPE , and was the " customs headquarters , " also charged with overseeing port activities at Keelung GPE , Tainan GPE , and Kaohsiung GPE . However , during the Japanese NORP occupation , as a result of silting , and because the Japanese NORP invested a huge effort in developing the port at Keelung GPE , Tanshui ORG faded in importance , never again to see the likes of its glory days . Tanshui PERSON is a place of many historic sites , a place that invites reflection on things past . In the " foreign district , " a missionary named George Mackay PERSON established the first ORDINAL hospital for Western NORP medicine in Taiwan GPE ; it was here that in 1878 DATE the first ORDINAL case of paragonimiasis in the world was diagnosed . The old church next to the hospital is a mecca for Tanshui PERSON painters .

The schools , homes , and consulates in the foreign district - some long gone , some still standing - testify to the fact that this was a place of intensive interaction between Chinese NORP and Western NORP cultures . If you go up Sanmin Street ORG , you will discover the head of an old and disused water pipe . This could be a relic left behind by one CARDINAL of the major Japanese NORP infrastructure projects , the first ORDINAL tap water station . Or you could walk instead next to the MRT station and see another first ORDINAL for Taiwan GPE : the first ORDINAL seaplane landing area , also built in the Japanese NORP occupation era . Or you could visit the venerable Tamkang Secondary School ORG . As you watch the children laughing and arguing and playing , you can think back to the time when the Japanese NORP government did not allow Taiwanese NORP and Japanese NORP to attend school together . Under those circumstances , Tamkang Middle School ORG became a cradle for the training of Taiwanese NORP elites . Gradually you will discover that Tanshui ORG is a bookish place . This little town has everything from nursery schools to graduate schools . During the reign of the Guangxu emperor of the Qing dynasty DATE -LRB- which began in 1875 DATE -RRB- , and prior to the beginning of the Japanese NORP occupation in 1895 DATE , Tanshui ORG produced two CARDINAL successful candidates in the highest level military exam , one CARDINAL in the highest level civil exam , and countless successes in lower - level imperial exams .

Even in modern times , the town has not passed up chances to embrace knowledge : When the idea of founding Tam - kang University PERSON in Tanshui GPE was going to be abandoned because of a lack of land and money , local residents offered cheap land , donated money , and lobbied so that the university could set its roots in town . These historic sites are near the river , but do n't spend all your time there . Do n't forget the Tatun Mountains , which shelter the town . In the old days DATE , Tanshui PERSON folk who cultivated farms on the slopes had to walk for an hour to get to their crops . These days you can take a local mini-bus . In the mountains you will see the occasional terraced field grown over with weeds . This land , which has gone from grass to grain and back to grass again , is where many an old Tanshui native played when they were children . The Tanshui PERSON mystique The mountains are also filled with old stories .

The often - renovated Hsing Chung Tang PERSON shop is more than a century old . Owner Li Yung - kun PERSON is a descendant of the eminent Li PERSON family of Tanshui GPE , which produced three CARDINAL juren -LRB- a successful candidate in provincial - level exams , held every three years DATE -RRB- . The house testifies to this past : It has a swallow - tailed roof and a flagpole , features that only the home of a juren was entitled to have . Li Mingbin PERSON -LRB- whose name by birth is Li Minghui PERSON -RRB- , a scholar from Beijing University ORG currently working at Chinese Culture University ORG on an exchange program , is a descendant of the juren Li Yingzhen , who was wounded resisting the Japanese NORP occupation and fled to the mainland , where he settled down . Like his elders , Li Mingbin PERSON bridges the gap across the Taiwan Strait LOC , as he is capable of conversing fluently in either Beijing GPE dialect or the southern Fujian GPE dialect used in Taiwan GPE . Of course , stories do n't have to be old to be interesting . Today DATE 's Tanshui PERSON residents are living their own stories . The crotchety but modest guy who delivers the newspapers , the seafood restaurant owner who has made his fortune from scratch , the old man at the roadside food stall , the hostess in the tea house greeting and sending off guests . . . . Some are active in the early morning , some late at night . Though the founders of many of these shops have passed away , the second ORDINAL generation has taken the baton .

In the old bamboo tea shop , the now elderly hostess still plays her role amidst the ambience of wine and tea , offering a feminine presence to help put at ease her customers who come looking for a little relaxation , evoking the bewitching atmosphere of Tanshui GPE at night . Businessmen from outside , smelling profits , have set up gaudy storefronts and neon signs , hoping to trade on Tanshui ORG 's mystique to sell coffee , seafood , antiques , and snack foods . Students , who have enough money to keep several streets of shops going , carelessly wheel their motorcycles through the narrow streets , their minds elsewhere , thinking of youthful fun or romance . Happy couples and jilted lovers line the river , displaying their joy or sadness in their postures : two CARDINAL people 's shadows are melted together by the darkened river behind , while others stand alone on the riverbank like statues . The weeping river Have you heard of the weeping junks ? During the Sino - French war , Taiwan GPE governor Liu Mingchuan PERSON , attempting to obstruct a French NORP landing , scuttled several of these boats . It is said that , late at night , the sunken junks make moaning sounds . But I think that it may be the river itself that is moaning .

In 1998 DATE , the government produced a plan for a riverside expressway to Tanshui GPE . The road , which was expected to have three CARDINAL levels , would have cut through rare mangroves and created a barrier between the river and the town of Tanshui GPE . If the plan had been implemented , people who wanted to go to Tanshui PERSON and gaze out over the river would have had to find some very high vantage point in town to do so ! Fortunately , thanks to efforts by cultural and environmental activists from Tanshui GPE , the plan was first ORDINAL postponed , and then was ultimately killed after an environmental impact assessment released in September DATE refused to approve the scheme . But a question remains : Is something like this bound to come sooner or later ? " For the purposes of development , the Tanshui GPE coast has been constantly exploited . But what will be result of this incessant struggle against nature ? " says an agitated Tu Hsiu - yuan PERSON . And Hsieh Teh - hsi PERSON of the Tamsui Culture Foundation ORG adds : " High - rises are going up one CARDINAL after another in Tanshui New Town ORG [ a huge government - planned development ] , but many of the apartments remain empty . Everybody here knows that when the northeast winds blow in during the winter , that is the coldest place around . No wonder those apartments are not selling ! "

Tu PERSON says , with disbelief and exasperation in his voice : " Do you know that they are going to build a huge bridge between Tanshui PERSON and Pali ? It 's such a beautiful and historic location , but they are just going to stick up a bridge there , and they are even talking about having a rotating restaurant on top ! " Lovers of Tanshui , while keeping close watch over her , are fearful that the giant beast of development may eventually come and bulldoze Tanshui GPE away one CARDINAL piece of land at a time . They fear that their children , like they themselves , will have to search through photographs and memories to find Tanshui PERSON 's traditional simplicity and the joys of being close to nature . When the old buildings are gone , and people lose contact with the great outdoors , will Tanshui PERSON even be worthy of its reputation anymore ? Scattered wooden fishing boats bob in the river . I have n't met any of the fishermen who these days go out and catch only small fry . They might relate how in the old days they could just put a hand in the river and come up with a big catch . The lonely fishing boats are waiting for the Tanshui - Pali ferry to pass by and say hello . Those lanterns moving through the river are actually the ferry , while those stars flashing in the distance are beams of light that come from the lighthouse every five seconds .

It is only now that I realize that , even in the drabbest weather , Tanshui PERSON is still beautiful . Taiwan GPE 's Townships When you look at a map , what do the 309 CARDINAL townships of Taiwan GPE mean to you ? Do you draw a complete blank on all of them ? Or do some of the names evoke beautiful memories ? What do these townships have to offer visitors ? What interesting or famous characters have they given birth to ? In this age of the global village , how much do you know about the village next door ? Sinorama wants to take you on a journey through Taiwan GPE 's 309 CARDINAL townships large and small : As they follow their individual rhythms , what is it that enables them to create their own music , and what can we hear in the songs they sing ?

Tanshui Facts and Figures Tanshui Township PERSON -LRB- also spelled Tamsui PERSON -RRB- is part of Taipei County GPE . It abuts Sanchih Rural Township ORG to the northeast , the Kuantu GPE area of Taipei City GPE to the southeast , and the Taiwan Strait LOC to the northwest ; to the southwest it faces Pali Rural Township LOC over the Tanshui River LOC . It covers an area of just over 70 square kilometers QUANTITY , and has a population of 115,000 CARDINAL . It is the largest paddy - rice producing area in Taipei County GPE . In days DATE gone by , because the Kuroshio GPE current passes close by , the waters offshore were rich fishing grounds . However , in recent years DATE , pollution from the Tanshui River LOC and exhaustion of fish stocks have caused the catch to dwindle . Among the more famous tourist sites are Fort San Domingo FAC , Yin Shan Temple PERSON , the Lixuetang school -LRB- known in English LANGUAGE as Oxford College ORG , founded in 1882 DATE to train missionaries -RRB- , Huwei cannon emplacement , the mangrove conservation area , Shalun ORG beach recreation area , the historic buildings of the Mackay Hospital ORG and Tamkang Middle School ORG , " Antiques Street " -LRB- Chungcheng Road -RRB- , and the ferry pier . Public transportation includes inter-city bus service , the Tanshui Line of the ORG Taipei GPE mass rapid transit system , and local buses .

For more detailed information visit http://www.tamsui.gov.tw/ . p. 094 CARDINAL High - rises are thought by many to represent development , but in Tanshui GPE they are ruining the skyline and the historic ambience of the town . p. 095 CARDINAL An old Tanshui ORG resident sits with legs crossed reading the paper , as the passage of time , marked on the calendar on the wall , adds a gloss to the antiques . p. 096 CARDINAL -LRB- facing page -RRB- These lovers may be gazing at Tanshui GPE with their eyes , but their hearts have eyes only for one another . Tranquil and romantic Tanshui PERSON is a great place for wedding photos .

p. 097 CARDINAL As the lazy sun displays an extraordinary beauty , a fishing boat drifts toward shore over the golden water . Turning to the Constitution LAW on the " One CARDINAL China " Issue Still wrestling with the vexed issue of " one CARDINAL China GPE , " the President 's Advisory Group ORG on Cross-Strait Relations ORG met for its sixth ORDINAL and seventh ORDINAL sessions during November DATE , amid frenzied media attention . The group eventually reached a consensus that the " one CARDINAL China GPE " principle advocated by the mainland should be addressed " in accordance with the constitution . " How president Chen Shui - bian PERSON responds to this proposal will determine whether or not the " one CARDINAL China GPE " stalemate can be broken , and if there is to be a set timetable for implementing the three CARDINAL direct links . After assuming the presidency , Chen Shui - bian PERSON recruited a number of leading politicians , industrialists , academics and other personages for a non-partisan advisory group , intended to build cross-party consensus on the subject of relations with the mainland . Chaired by Academia Sinica ORG president Lee Yuan - tseh PERSON , the Presidential Advisory Group ORG on Cross-Strait Relations ORG first met in early September DATE .

Since then the Group ORG has held a series of intensive discussions on Taiwan GPE 's fundamental position regarding the cross-strait relationship . The Group entered the final phase of discussions on the " one CARDINAL China GPE " issue during November DATE , but differences between pro-unification and pro-independence participants continued to stymie the effort to produce a statement acceptable to all . As DPP ORG legislator Shen Fu - hsiung PERSON pointed out , the Group had to draft something " palatable both to the pro-unification and pro-independence camps ; something which the DPP ORG ca n't shun and yet which does n't make Beijing GPE wince . " Clearly no easy task . On the evening of November 18 TIME Advisory Group chairman Lee Yuan - tseh PERSON , meeting over dinner with DPP ORG faction leaders , described the cross-strait situation as extremely precarious , and said that since time is not on Taiwan GPE 's side we need to step up efforts to resume dialogue with the mainland . Separately , during his report to the Legislative Yuan ORG on the Academia Sinica 's ORG budget , Lee PERSON reiterated : " If the whole population could arrive at a consensus on ' one CARDINAL China GPE , ' then President Chen PERSON would have no grounds for not accepting that consensus . " Lee PERSON added that he hoped the Advisory Group would shortly come to a firm conclusion on the " one CARDINAL China GPE " issue . Lee Yuan - tseh 's PERSON appeal made little impression on the governing DPP ORG , however . Furthermore , DPP ORG chairman Frank Hsieh PERSON himself came under fire within the party after stating : " The constitution of the ROC GPE is itself a one CARDINAL China GPE framework . Since the DPP ORG has participated in the process of constitutional amendment it ought to accept this constitution , and as the party of government we ca n't afford to override or reject it . "

According to DPP ORG lawmaker Lin Cho - shui PERSON , Chen Shui - bian PERSON has shown more goodwill to Beijing GPE as president than Lee Teng - hui PERSON ever did , but without any response - so why should he once again be expected to respond on the " one CARDINAL China GPE " issue ? Also , Lin PERSON disagrees with Lee Yuan - tseh 's PERSON assertion that " time is not on our side , " and instead feels that things are no worse than before . Meanwhile , the opposition alliance has been calling for the DPP ORG to " shed its ideological baggage . " On November 24 DATE the New Party ORG , which had already pulled out of the Advisory Group ORG , published an article in the press signed by leading members such as Yu Mu - ming PERSON and Chen Kui - miao PERSON , in which they called on the government to take the constitution as its starting point for breaking the " one CARDINAL China GPE " deadlock . They pointed out that Chen PERSON and the DPP ORG had competed in elections in accordance with the constitution , winning the presidency and a share of seats in the legislature and the National Assembly ORG , and had also participated in the process of revising the constitution . Now , with its constitutionally granted mandate , the party has an obligation to fully uphold the constitution . As the politicians argued , Formosa Plastics ORG boss Wang Yung - ching PERSON convened a meeting with other captains of industry to come up with some advice for the government on economic policy . For the first ORDINAL time Wang PERSON voiced support for Lee Yuan - tseh 's PERSON proposal that " with ' one CARDINAL China GPE ' as the precondition , each side can have its own interpretation . "

Wang PERSON also agreed with Lee PERSON 's notion that time is running out for Taiwan GPE , in the belief that Taiwan GPE will only have time on its side once it starts to carry out well - intentioned engagement with the mainland . Consensus on the " one CARDINAL China GPE question " is an urgent priority for both sides if there is to be a peaceful future . Wang Yung - ching 's PERSON demand for a review of the government 's " go slow " policy , and opening of the three CARDINAL direct links , brought a personal phone call from the president , who invited him to come and discuss policy . On November 25 DATE Wang PERSON and a handful of other leading industrialists went to call on the president at his official residence . The businessmen said that shelving the " one CARDINAL China GPE " issue was not the right thing for the government to do , and that Taiwan GPE could no longer afford to play word games . They stressed the need for early restoration of the mechanism for cross-strait economic dialogue , and said that the government should also think about moving towards political dialogue . The Presidential Advisory Group ORG met again on November 26 DATE , and discussed a proposal , made earlier by Public Television System ORG chairman Wu Feng - shan PERSON and already favored by most members of the Group , for " one CARDINAL China GPE " to be addressed through " three CARDINAL acknowledgements and four CARDINAL suggestions . " A firm consensus was finally arrived at , and the Group submitted to the president its proposal that Taiwan GPE should " respond to the mainland 's ' one CARDINAL China GPE ' proposition in accordance with the constitution of the ROC GPE . " The government and opposition parties continued to disagree regarding this consensus .

DPP ORG legislator Lin Cho - shui PERSON described it as " acceptable , if not very satisfactory . " PFP ORG spokesman Li Ching - an PERSON called it " a conclusion without a conclusion . " New Party ORG convenor Hau Lung - pin PERSON said the statement was too ambiguous , tending towards " one CARDINAL China GPE , with each side free to make its own interpretation , " and added that it was highly unlikely to be used by the president as a guide for cross-strait policy . Ting Shou - chung PERSON , deputy executive director of the KMT ORG policy committee , said this so - called consensus was simply a case of going round and round on the spot , and would do nothing to solve the core problem . In a November 28 DATE press release , the Mainland Affairs Council ORG -LRB- MAC -RRB- , the government body in charge of cross-strait affairs , diplomatically stated that it would observe and implement the suggestions of the Advisory Group ORG if and when they become official government policy . Speaking on the topic of the three CARDINAL direct links , MAC ORG chairwoman Tsai Ing - wen PERSON said that these will be phased in according to conditions , with the first ORDINAL phase being the opening of direct business links as necessitated by the admission of both sides to the WTO ORG . And according to economics minister Lin Hsin - yi PERSON , the government recognizes that the " go slow " policy needs to be relaxed , and will give a more thorough accounting of this before the end of the year . Tips for Getting through Middle Age -LRB- Laura Li PERSON / photos by Hsueh Chi - kuang PERSON / tr. by Jonathan Barnard PERSON -RRB-

Middle age and the changes it brings are like a revolving door . Many people peacefully go through it , growing wiser and losing their rough edges . A minority do n't know whether to advance or retreat and get caught in it like a trap . Middle age is a time where one wears more hats than at any other time in one CARDINAL 's life , when one CARDINAL 's responsibilities are heaviest . As a result , the crises experienced by a minority of middle - aged people can involve a lot of other people , so their impact can not be overlooked . Middle age , those years between 40 and 60 , is both the time of life of greatest glory and the time of life that 's easiest to overlook . In comparison to youth or old age , the middle years are often thought of as the time when power , ability , wealth , and physical strength are all at or near their peak , so that one CARDINAL has no excuse for feeling melancholy . Even if there are problems , it is commonly thought that one CARDINAL should be able to resolve them by oneself , notes Chiu Chia - li PERSON , director of the Hwo Chyuan Pastoral Counseling Center ORG , who has worked on many middle - aged cases . Social bias makes many of the middle aged afraid to discuss their problems . This is particularly the case for men , who generally find it difficult to talk about their feelings .

But by keeping everything inside , they may cause irreparable harm to their health . In recent years DATE cancer , sudden death and suicide have become all too common during middle age , which shows that the psychological problems of the middle - aged should not be overlooked . How do you safely pass through the changes of the middle years DATE ? Here are a few suggestions : 1 CARDINAL . Live well at every stage of life Li Liang - che PERSON , a professor of psychology at National Chengchi University ORG , looks at the question from the angle of developmental psychology . He points out that the path of life is continuous : everyone moves from infancy and childhood , to youth and middle age . Smoothly passing through any period of life helps make getting through the next period easier . In other words , the people most at risk during middle age are those who have had difficulties earlier in life .

Foreign research shows that those with high social and economic status and with ample financial resources bear up better during crisis and have more ways to get out of trouble . Is it too late to start talking about these problems when you are already middle - aged ? Chang Der - chung PERSON , an associate professor in the Department of Living Science ORG at National Open University ORG who worked at a counseling hotline for over a decade DATE , argues that any step in the right direction is worthwhile , no matter when you start . Middle - aged problems are rather predictable , and they 're not hard to avoid . Are you worried that your marriage is growing stale ? Then no matter how busy you are , you 've got to set aside some time to be with your spouse . Are you worried about losing your job ? Then start developing a second ORDINAL skill and get into the habit of saving and managing your money . Are you worried about how to care for your parents when they get old and sick ? Then spend more time with them , and encourage them to get more exercise and take care of themselves .

There are so many things to be concerned about during middle age that you had better get an early start . Otherwise , you 'll end up being overwhelmed . 2 CARDINAL . Start over In China GPE it used to be said that middle age was the period when one was " heir to the ancient sages and the teacher of posterity . " But now times are changing so fast that perhaps the lessons of past experience are no longer suitable for solving today DATE 's problems . To assume a posture of superiority based on one CARDINAL 's seniority will make one despised . Hence , it is necessary to cast aside one 's old self and start over . Chiu PERSON notes that many middle - aged who have worked diligently for years DATE to attain management positions look down on the younger generation for being reckless and disorganized , but they do n't realize that creativity and energy may be ready to explode from underneath these flaws . Stuck in the past and full of bitterness , they may end up getting discarded onto the scrap heap of history .

With each new era , role models change . Until the new role models have been established , it is important to maintain flexibility . For instance , today DATE 's middle - aged Chinese NORP women are the first ORDINAL to have obtained advanced degrees and to have come in contact with the women 's liberation movement . They set high expectations for themselves , but their disappointments are likewise large . Many women are torn between conflicting desires : to be good homemakers like their mothers and to have successful careers like their fathers . Their candles are burning at both ends , because they are trying to live up to two old role models rather than establishing a new one CARDINAL for themselves . Then there are men who insist upon being strict fathers and disciplinarians or staying at the same company until they retire . And there are women who are determined to play the role of the traditional Chinese NORP wife and mother . Ignoring the changing times , they place tremendous pressure on themselves .

3 CARDINAL . Turn the focus from outside to inside Life is a process that moves from the " outward " to the " inward , " says Alice Lu PERSON , director of the International Family Life Education Center ORG , getting to the heart of the matter . Lu PERSON explains that as children people yearn for the affection of their parents ; as adolescents they want the affirmation of their peers ; and as adults , they set their sights on educational qualifications , finding a good job , making money , marrying a good spouse and so forth . Everyone puts the emphasis on outward manifestations of success , and this emphasis on the glitter of outward achievement continues up to middle age . " By middle age , people have gotten from the outside world just about all they can , " says Lu PERSON . " What they have n't attained yet they probably wo n't attain ever , so it 's not worth getting all worked up about it . This is the time of life when the doubts set in . " Many middle - aged people begin to ask themselves , " Is this really what I want ? What has been the point of all my hard striving ? " When the doubts come , some people continue trying to find answers from outside , thinking that everything would be fine if they could just change jobs or wives !

But then they rashly switch jobs or foolishly get involved in an affair only to find that they 've just made things worse . " In middle age you start to listen to what 's going on inside , " says Lu PERSON . " It 's the time of life when you start to hone your skills at conversing with your soul . " People ask themselves : Am I truly happy ? Do I like the person I see in the mirror ? Why ? What dreams can I pursue ? At this point , there is no longer any need to try to measure oneself against outside standards . Instead it 's more important to accept oneself and attempt to find an inner balance . " One CARDINAL need not compare one 's inner achievements with those of other people , " notes Chiu PERSON .

Everyone 's circumstances and personalities are different , and they place different expectations on themselves . It 's not a matter of being better or worse than anyone else , and there 's no need to follow the currents of fashion . Everyone is unique . Morris Chang PERSON was in his fifties when he became an entrepreneur and founded Taiwan Semiconductor ORG . Many others at the same time in life have opted to take early retirement and find a guru in India GPE , work as a volunteer , or do whatever else they want to do . In the modern age when people value different things , you can find a purely personal kind of happiness and success . 4 CARDINAL . Realistically strive for one CARDINAL 's dreams When focusing inward , many dreams that have long been discarded will end up floating to the surface . At such times , one CARDINAL should remember to ask oneself three CARDINAL questions :

" What do I want ? " " What can I do ? " And " What must I do and have ? " Chang Der - chung PERSON reminds people to think clearly about their needs , and then think about the costs . Will meeting these personal needs necessarily come into conflict with meeting one CARDINAL 's responsibilities ? Is there some way that the two CARDINAL can be accomplished simultaneously ? When facing problems at work in Taiwan GPE , many people decide to change careers or even to pursue their fortunes in mainland China GPE or Southeast Asia LOC . Pursuing some dream of really making it big , many men use up their savings , leaving their wives as the sole source of family support and suffering loneliness in a foreign land . There 's no right or wrong here , and there 's no way to guarantee a venture will be successful , but beforehand one CARDINAL must at least be realistic and prepare oneself psychologically for all possible outcomes , so that one wo n't suffer losses larger than one can bear . " It is indeed the case that when one CARDINAL is young , one 's quiver is full of arrows and opportunities abound , so that one can shoot at will , " says Chang PERSON by way of analogy . " Once you get into middle age , you 've got to make every arrow count . " Chang PERSON explains that everyone has dreams , and that continually working toward those dreams is an excellent method of relieving stress at any age .

Middle - aged people have heavy burdens , and sometimes they may feel as if they are suffocating under them . " But accomplishing a lot of little changes can bring about a big change . " If you make an effort to do what you can , you will immediately find that your burdens have been lightened . Chang PERSON cites this example : Say you hate being tied up by your work , and would like to go back to school . Why do n't you try a weekend class ? Maybe that would help to alleviate your anxiety . Or if you are a housewife , taking care of three CARDINAL generations and resentful that you ca n't go out and get the sense of accomplishment that comes with a full - time job , then maybe you could work as a volunteer in a community organization . This would both put you into contact with other people and help you gain a sense of accomplishment . And you can help to sweat off your middle - aged anxieties by making a habit of regularly exercising . What 's more , do n't worry too much about time being short .

Remember that most modern people live long lives that can be divided up into many stages . In middle age , when you discover that your personal desires are coming into conflict with the demands of your family or society , decide which of your problems are the most urgent . Do n't try to accomplish all of your dreams at once . Maintain an unhurried frame of mind and peacefully wait for opportunities to present themselves . 5 CARDINAL . Change your perspective In middle age , one CARDINAL 's life is already half CARDINAL over , and one CARDINAL has already amply tasted of life 's fruits , both the bitter and the sweet . " I am thankful for the bad times , for they have given me more insight into life and a better opportunity to understand myself , " says Lin Hung - kuei PERSON , an I - kuan Tao PERSON devotee , who has studied the Book of Changes and fengshui . Taking care of your parents , losing your job , illness and even being cheated out of money can be embraced as opportunities to experience life . They are lessons that the middle - aged learn from to become more proficient at the art of living .

" By changing perspective , you can understand the insignificance of your problems , " points out Chiu Chia - li PERSON . It is very important to adjust your frame of mind . You should n't think that there is only one way that you can be . As long as you can accept yourself , then everything is all right . As for losing your job in middle age , some people make NT$ 100,000 MONEY and it 's not enough . Other's find that NT$ 20,000 MONEY is more than enough to support the family . The problem is that by insisting on making NT$ 100,000 MONEY a month , you may pass by a suitable job that pays NT$ 20,000 MONEY . Chang PERSON also notes that when people come to forks in the road when they reach middle age , they may look around in all directions and feel at a loss , but they 've got to encourage themselves to keep pressing ahead . " Even if you feel uncertain , it should be a positive feeling of uncertainty . " At the very least , you 've got to work hard at establishing a sense of direction .

When Li Liang - che PERSON starts feeling sorry for himself , he uses the age - old method of considering those who are even worse off . Those people who are always complaining about their lot in life should take a walk around a cancer ward , " Li PERSON says . Then they 'll realize how lucky they are . " Chiu Chia - li PERSON , on the other hand , encourages the middle - aged not to close themselves off . They must get out and make friends , so as to get things off their chests and find support from each other . This makes it easier to get through the bad times . Finally , there is something that may seem a little cliched but is often very useful - namely the realization that things will get better , that tomorrow DATE is another day DATE . " Whether you are depressed or going berserk , it 's important to remember that hormones are raging inside the bodies of the middle - aged , " says Chang PERSON . Much like rebellious adolescents , they may merely need to pass through into another stage for the sky to become blue again . Do n't give up hope too early , and do n't be afraid of asking for assistance .

When you feel at a loss emotionally , the experts will be able to help . p. 18 CARDINAL The shackles of midlife make middle - aged steps heavy . How can one CARDINAL escape from one CARDINAL 's commitments to snatch half a day DATE of freedom , and appreciate the world from a new perspective ? p. 20 CARDINAL -LRB- facing page -RRB- The middle - aged have dreams . If built on a solid foundation , they can make life more enjoyable and fulfilling . p. 22 CARDINAL

Is life getting you down ? Go into the crowd , find things to do , and you will rediscover a sense of the value of life . The Remaking of Linpien Home of the Black Pearl Wax Apple -LRB- Teng Sue - feng PERSON / photos by Jimmy Lin PERSON / tr. by Christopher MacDonald PERSON -RRB- Even if the township of Linpien does n't have a monopoly on the cultivation of " black pearl " wax apples , it was orchards in the Linpien locality that earned black pearls their national renown . A little town formerly notorious for its ground subsidence problem , Linpien PERSON is now turning itself into one CARDINAL of Southern Taiwan 's LOC premier tourist attractions . The impetus for this change has come chiefly from local historians , along with various voluntary groups . Just before Christmas DATE break , the rural township of Linpien GPE , on the Pingtung Plain LOC at the mouth of the Linpien river , held its first ORDINAL ever Wax Apple Festival ORG .

The festival , in the town 's riverside park , was held to promote black pearl wax apples and celebrate the local volunteer spirit . It was a scorching hot day , and heavily perspiring visitors were to be seen wandering among the stalls , lugging bags of wax apples and commenting on their remarkable sweetness . " There 's a lot more than you 'd think to growing wax apples , " says local farmer Chen Sheng - tzung PERSON . " How you take care of the orchards , which equipment you use - it all has an affect on the shape and texture of the fruit . " Prices for wax apples range widely , from around 3 pounds for NT$ 100 MONEY to NT$ 150 a pound . Fruit that shows a hint of black through the red color of the skin fetches the best price . Huang Wan - fu PERSON , whose family farms two hectares of orchard with more than 700 CARDINAL wax apple trees , and who has over 30 years ' DATE experience as a fruit grower , says that while other parts of Pingtung County GPE also grow wax apples , " Linpien stands out for its growing techniques , developed through trial and error by the growers themselves , and for vernalization rates of up to 90 % PERCENT . " Ugly duckling no more The wax apple is a tropical fruit originating from the Malay NORP peninsula .

The Dutch NORP brought it to Taiwan GPE from Java GPE , in the 17th century DATE , and it became commonly grown as a shade - giving tree . Old folk in the South LOC remember when wax apples were " just something to munch on " - the kind of fruit that grew freely and that you could help yourself to . But wax apples have increased in value during the past 30 years DATE , thanks to advances in the way that they are grown . For example , the " bag - wrap " method was originally a way of protecting budding fruit from birds , but once it was introduced to Linpien , in around 1994 DATE , farmers found it enabled them to grow more lustrous , shiny - looking wax apples , with less pesticide on the skin . The method soon caught on throughout the district . Another popular technique involves covering the trees with black mosquito nets to improve yields . This reduces the amount of sunlight reaching the trees , causing nutrients from the leaves and branches to be diverted into producing fruit . The net - covered trees blossom earlier and produce more fruit . As a result of this technique , black pearl wax apples are now available throughout most of the year . The " black pearl " tag did n't originate in Linpien GPE , but it was Linpien wax apples that made the variety famous and prompted the dramatic growth of its market .

In 1983 DATE the then - provincial governor Lee Teng - hui PERSON visited the town and praised the quality of its black pearl wax apples , so assuring the renown of the fruit . Subsequently , as president , Lee Teng - hui PERSON often gave gifts of black pearl wax apples to foreign dignitaries . Green hills The success of black pearl wax apples gave Linpien a much - needed boost , bringing some of the younger generation back to the area to grow the fruit . The credit for putting wax apples at the heart of the town 's revival and for mounting the Wax Apple Festival belongs with a group of volunteer workers - local people committed to the town 's regeneration . How does a small town like Linpien come to be home to such a well - organized volunteer effort , and just how did the volunteers set about giving their town a make - over ? The story begins with the town 's riverside park . The road linking the town 's main street with the riverside park , where locals like to stroll and chat at the beginning and end of the day , used to be overgrown and lined with trash . Now , however , thanks to a coordinated effort involving volunteers , residents and landlords , the verges are planted with sunflowers and lantana , while a former mud patch , donated rent - free by its owner , has been converted into a carp - filled lotus pool .

The revamping of Linpien started eight or DATE nine years ago DATE , when schoolteacher Tsao Chi - hung PERSON - now a DPP ORG deputy in the national legislature - along with fellow members of the Linpien Residents ' Democracy Association launched a program to sweep the streets and keep the riverbank clean . Wu Wu - ta PERSON , a plumber who runs the Democracy Association ORG , says : " People were already doing their bit for the community over ten years ago DATE , but not openly . They swept the streets before dawn because they did n't want people to see them and call them crazy . " It was only three years ago , with the founding of the non-political Linpien Natural History Conservation Association ORG , that residents began to publicly support the project . The flood - prone Linpien River GPE has been dyked and dredged since the Japanese NORP colonial era , but the bare concrete embankments never did much for the scenery . In 1999 DATE Tsao Chi - hung PERSON learned that the Water Conservancy Bureau ORG was planning to renovate the flood defenses , and he proposed a scheme for " greenification " of the riverside area . Objections were raised , however , with some pointing out that the site , if left untended , could easily get overgrown and become a breeding ground for snakes and vermin . The issue was discussed and finally the Bureau ORG agreed to let volunteers maintain the riverside area for two years DATE . If the scheme did n't work out then the Bureau would concrete over the site as originally planned . Following the lead of the conservation association and the Democracy Association ORG , various volunteer groups in the district - including the senior citizens ' club , members of Tzu Chi Buddhist Foundation ORG , the Presbyterian Church ORG , and followers of the I - Kuan Tao PERSON sect - signed up to share responsibility for the riverside park , which was divided into 90 - meter QUANTITY - long plots for the purpose .

Turf PERSON was laid , flower beds appeared , and the embankment soon became a 1.2 CARDINAL km - long " green Great Wall . " Dreaming by the river " You ca n't go about community work in a standoffish way , and you certainly ca n't operate effectively from behind the scenes - you have to be out there at the front of things . When local people see teachers and doctors coming out to collect trash , they feel encouraged to join in , " says Chen Chin - chao PERSON , a dentist who chairs the Linpien Natural History Conservation Association ORG . Chen PERSON frets about the way the media has focused the spotlight on him alone , when numerous other individuals are also involved , all chipping in what they can . " The biggest achievement is that the flowers have n't been stolen , " says Tsao Chi - hung PERSON . " As more people volunteer to help , disruptive behavior becomes less and less likely . " The riverside area used to be a teenage hangout , known for its drinking and fighting , but since greenification the town 's residents have been coming here to stroll and enjoy the scenery : green hills to the East LOC , the sunset in the West LOC , and the dreamy river alongside the park . " The more that people get involved the greater their sense of accomplishment , " says Tsao PERSON .

" It 's not just about tidying up the environment . We also hope to foster the commercial interests of the community so as to bring practical benefits for people 's lives . " This was the thinking behind Tsao PERSON 's gathering together of various groups for the Wax Apple Festival ORG . According to the archives , 400 years ago DATE Linpien was a plains - aborigine settlement called " Fang - suo PERSON - she . " In the middle of the 17th century the Ming dynasty loyalist Zheng Chenggong PERSON -LRB- also known as Koxinga PERSON -RRB- brought an influx of settlers to Taiwan GPE from the Fujian GPE and Guangdong GPE regions of China GPE . Some of the Fang - suo - she aborigines stayed and intermarried with Chinese NORP , while others moved away . The oldest recorded use of the name " Linpien " is on a stele , erected in 1762 DATE , next to the town 's Sanshan King Temple PERSON . The name , which means " beside the forest , " indicates that the early settlers must have had a tough time clearing land for their crops . Moving to center - stage

In the past half century DATE or more Linpien has concentrated on a series of different forms of produce , from rice , to bananas , to prawn and eel farming , to wax apples - today 's main crop . With Taiwan GPE 's imminent accession to the WTO ORG , the next big change could be just around the corner . For example , will wax apples lose their market to imported fruit ? And what does Linpien have to offer that other districts in the county ca n't easily duplicate ? Yang Hung - jen PERSON , a PhD WORK_OF_ART student at National Taiwan University 's ORG Graduate Institute of Sociology ORG , came to Linpien GPE a year ago DATE to research his thesis on the renewal of the local community . " I had come to what was said to be the worst county in Taiwan GPE for factionalism and corruption , " says Yang PERSON , " a place where the ground had sunk as much as three CARDINAL meters due to subsidence . But the contrast between that image and what I actually found here was quite something . " For Yang PERSON , the way that those most active in the renewal effort routinely pass the credit to others is itself impressive . Linpien rose to prominence on the strength of its celebrated wax apples . But can it now push its way to center - stage as a tourist attraction ?

Says Chen Chin - chao PERSON : " We ca n't yet say how things will turn out for Linpien . But that 's not to be pessimistic about the town 's prospects ; it 's simply a case of not building castles in the air . " Development of the long - promised Tapeng Bay Scenic Area FAC is due to begin , and in 2003 the 2nd DATE Southern Freeway LOC will open . Will this bring more prosperity to the area ? Construction of a bypass around the town has already boosted property values , but what other benefits may it bring ? A golf course is mooted , but will that mean the loss of birdwatching zones and the mangrove woods ? Can the wax apple orchards be adapted to serve as a setting for family outings ? And can fish farms in the locality be converted to provide housing and accommodation , and a recreation alternative for visitors ? Can this little town make an asset of its scenic location and historical roots to attract more visitors ? Linpien used to be little more than a brief stop for travelers on their way to the seaside resort of Kenting , but now its residents are wondering if they can turn the town into a destination in its own right .

Linpien Facts PERSON and Figures Linpien Rural Township is in Pingtung County GPE , located on the Pingtung Plain LOC at the mouth of the Linpien River . It is adjacent to the planned Tapeng Bay Scenic Area FAC , and marks the point where the 2nd ORDINAL Southern Freeway LOC will terminate . At 15.6 CARDINAL sq. km in area , it is the second ORDINAL smallest of Pingtung County 's GPE 33 CARDINAL townships , and has a population of around 23,000 CARDINAL . Wax apples and aquaculture products are the main commodities , with betel nut and coconut also grown . One - third CARDINAL of the township 's land is below sea level . Visitors are recommended to try the local seafood and also not to miss the opportunity for bird - watching among the nearby estuaries , wetlands and mangrove woods . There are also cultural relics including traces of the original plains - aborigine inhabitants . Linpien can be reached along Provincial Highway 17 ORG .

The town has a railway station and can also be accessed by public and private bus services . For more information check out : www.taconet.com.tw/cstudio/ p. 45 CARDINAL Using special growing techniques , the farmers of Linpien control the quantity of blossoms on the trees so as to optimize the production of their treasured black pearl wax apples . p. 46 CARDINAL Aquaculture provides for full nets and full bellies , but it is also the culprit behind Linpien PERSON 's severe subsidence problem . The acreage of fish farms has halved in recent years DATE , due to the combination of falling profits and environmental degradation . p. 47 CARDINAL Subsidence has been caused by the over-extraction of ground - water for aquaculture .

Some of the houses on the Linpien - Chiatung coastal strip have sunk to the degree that their windows are level with the street and their rooves are within easy reach . p. 48 CARDINAL The gardens of the riverside park , laid out and maintained by local volunteers , cover land that used to be overgrown and strewn with rubbish . The people of the town now come here to stroll and enjoy their free time . p. 48 CARDINAL The river is blessed with fine scenery , and is good for fishing and birdwatching . Linpien residents see this as an important asset for attracting tourism . Dongguan Gets PERSON Down to Business Taiwan Firms Embrace a Cantonese NORP Boomtown From Hong Kong 's GPE airport , you can go straight to Dongguan on a Global Express bus .

With 27 CARDINAL departures a day , these buses run by a Taiwan GPE firm out of Dongguan GPE take Taiwan GPE expats to their adopted home , which boasts the largest concentration of Taiwan GPE firms in the PRC GPE . Invoking the Taiwanese NORP business battle cry of " victory to those who strive the hardest , " 20,000 CARDINAL - 30,000 Taiwan GPE expats in Dongguan GPE have in little more than a decade turned a county of banana and lichee plantations into a big city with exports behind only Shenzhen GPE 's and Shanghai GPE 's . How has Dongguan , this rising economic star , done it ? What mix of sad and happy tales about Taiwan GPE firms does this city have to tell ? It 's 10:00 at night TIME , but the city of Dongguan GPE in Guangdong Province GPE is still hopping . Cars clocking 80 kilometers QUANTITY an hour zip along roads that reveal hardly a trace of the farming villages that they linked not long ago . Taiwanese NORP business people here run their factories like they drive their cars , in high gear . The factories are lit up at night for overtime shifts . " We do n't take much of a break for the Chinese New Year 's holidays , " says Andrew Yeh PERSON , chairman of Dongguan 's ORG Powin Electric PERSON , which makes cable for the telecoms industry . " By the morning of the third TIME day we start up again with three CARDINAL shifts , just like any other day .

We ca n't keep up with our orders and have got to squeeze five days DATE of work into every 24 hours TIME . " In the busy Fucheng district , you find the Taiwanese NORP bars , covered from door to rooftop with flashing lights . The lights , like the karaoke singing within them , pulsate until dawn no matter the season . Inside there is a raucous crowd . A Taiwanese NORP businessman down from Harbin GPE boasts that his auto plant up in the northeast sits on a lot as vast as Taipei City GPE and has a green light to sell on the domestic market . In another room a Taiwanese NORP businessman based in Dongguan GPE carouses with a party cadre from Yunnan GPE who is trying to attract investment . Ju Gao - jeng PERSON , a former ROC GPE legislator who now has an academic post in Beijing GPE , is talking to a reporter from Taipei GPE about the ROC GPE presidential elections - a hot topic of conversation on both sides of the Taiwan GPE strait . Amid all the merrymaking , one CARDINAL gets a sense of what Shanghai GPE must have been like in the thirties . In Dongguan GPE at the turn of the 21st century , however , it is the Taiwanese NORP business people who have been playing the leading roles .

High concentration of Taiwan GPE firms Before the 21st century DATE had even arrived , a bright economic star had risen over southern China GPE . Ever since economic reforms accelerated on the mainland when Deng Xiaoping PERSON made a tour of the south in early 1992 DATE , four CARDINAL southern NORP Cantonese NORP cities - Zhongshan GPE , Dongguan GPE , Shunde ORG , and Nanhai - have earned a reputation as the " four CARDINAL tigers " of Guangdong Province GPE . Dongguan leads the pack . " The year before last its total exports were third ORDINAL on the mainland , trailing only Shenzhen GPE 's and Shanghai GPE 's , " says Jiang Suwu PERSON , a graduate of Wuhan University 's ORG Chinese NORP department who came south to work in the planning department of a Taiwan GPE firm in Dongguan GPE . " It had more than 15,000 CARDINAL foreign , Taiwan GPE , and Hong Kong GPE firms , and economic growth for that year DATE reached 26 % PERCENT . " In ancient times Dongguan PERSON was covered with lichee plantations whose fruit was favored by the imperial consort Yang Guifei PERSON . Just a little more than a decade ago Dongguan was still a largely agricultural area , its landscape a patchwork of rice paddies and corn fields . It has since been completely made over into a " boundless industrial park " with an area of 2,520 square kilometers QUANTITY , a population of more than 5 million CARDINAL , and more than 3,000 CARDINAL Taiwan GPE firms .

Chang Han - wen PERSON , the chairman of the Taiwan Business Association of Dongguan ORG -LRB- TBAD -RRB- , says that development started in the late 1980s DATE . Hong Kong GPE firms , with their proximity and fluent Cantonese NORP -LRB- also the local dialect in Dongguan GPE -RRB- , were first ORDINAL . The Taiwanese NORP , first ORDINAL coming about 1989 , followed . Each arrival seemed to bring many more on its heels . Taiwan GPE firms are now the most important source of foreign investment in Dongguan GPE . Consider the booming electronics industry . Eighty percent PERCENT of Dongguan ORG 's 1,800 CARDINAL computer - related companies are from Taiwan GPE , Hong Kong GPE and Macau GPE . In terms of production value , they account for at least half CARDINAL of this RMB 50 billion local industry . Dongguan holds the highest concentration of Taiwan GPE firms anywhere on the mainland . According to TBAD statistics , there are now 30,000 CARDINAL Taiwanese NORP companies on the mainland , -LRB- official PRC GPE statistics , which include service - industry firms , put the number at 45,000 CARDINAL -RRB- .

Guangdong Province GPE can boast one - third CARDINAL of the total , of which 3,200 CARDINAL are in Dongguan GPE . Most of these are telecom , cable , plastics , shoes , electronics and electric machinery companies . Why has Dongguan PERSON been such a magnet for Taiwan GPE firms ? Kao Wen - lai PERSON points out that Dongguan GPE is strategically located between Shenzhen GPE and Guangzhou GPE -LRB- Canton GPE -RRB- and accessible to the entire Pearl River LOC delta . It is three hours by car to Hong Kong GPE and one CARDINAL and a half hours by boat to Humen . When compared to Shenzhen GPE , moreover , land and labor in Dongguan GPE are cheap . " The local cadres have been smart , providing all manner of land and tax incentives , " says Chen Ming - chih PERSON , TBAD 's secretary general . Two CARDINAL keys to the miracle One afternoon in the days DATE before the Chinese New Year , Chinese NORP businessmen wearing suits arrived at the People 's Government ORG administration building in Dongguan 's Qishi district .

After a long wait , they sat down at a table to negotiate with Qishi 's ORG Communist Party ORG secretary , the district chief , and various staff from its foreign economic office . Qishi 's factory rents , electricity charges and land leases were all focuses of discussion . TBAD , as is frequently the case , introduced the two CARDINAL parties . " The factory rent was set at RMB 8.00 -LRB- about NT$ 32 CARDINAL -RRB- a square meter . The electricity charge was RMB .87 a kilowatt hour , and there were various tax incentives , " explains Wang Jung - tuo PERSON , who notes there is still room for negotiation . All in all , it was a very attractive package . In 1990 DATE , Wang PERSON went to Malaysia GPE thinking about opening a factory there , but he discovered that Malaysia GPE 's market was much smaller than the mainland 's and its labor costs twice as high . The style of life was too different there , there was a language divide , and the roads were poor . The mainland was a much better fit for him and his printed circuit boards company . Now , little more than a decade later , its 20 CARDINAL - 30 workers have grown to 2,000 CARDINAL .

The company is once again preparing to expand its physical plant . He acknowledges that it was a risky move to come to mainland China GPE , but " if you 're going to die , you might as well die among your own people . " He traces his ancestry to Guangdong GPE and affirms that his decision to set up in mainland China GPE " involves ethnic pride . " Although low land and labor costs are Dongguan 's main attractions , Taiwan GPE firms also choose the locale for the networks of people and producers that have been built up among Taiwanese NORP in Dongguan GPE over the last ten years DATE . These two CARDINAL kinds of networks , says H.D. Yeh - who PERSON served as TBAD 's president for two CARDINAL terms - were instrumental in creating the " Taiwanese NORP economic miracle . " H.D. Yeh PERSON points out that competition in the 21st century DATE is all about speed . When customers in America GPE make purchase orders , the whole process , including drawing up the contract and manufacturing the goods , requires four months DATE . But Taiwanese NORP firms can deliver in 15 days DATE . " There are two CARDINAL keys , " he says . " One CARDINAL is that all the upstream and downstream factories are here .

You can assemble a computer completely from parts made within 50 kilometers QUANTITY . " And the second ORDINAL key is that when you deal with Taiwanese NORP companies , you do n't have to endure a long contract process . Everything starts rolling with a single telephone call . Taiwanese NORP business people are always playing golf , singing karaoke or chewing betel nut together . " Everyone is always asking how everyone else is doing - it 's a way of networking and building up good relations , " Yeh PERSON says . Andrew Yeh PERSON recalls that when the company first ORDINAL set up in Dongguan GPE in 1990 DATE , " Even screws had to be brought in from Taiwan GPE . " But now the company sources virtually all of the necessary raw materials and parts on the mainland and is reliant for very little on Taiwan GPE . " What does industrial emigration entail ? Usually it means downstream industries coming first , forcing the mid-stream industries to follow , " says Sylvia Yang PERSON , deputy chairperson of TBAD 's women 's division . And in Dongguan GPE downstream Taiwan GPE firms have expanded into the mid-stream , becoming more vertically integrated .

Tahsin Printing PERSON only made paper boxes in Taiwan GPE but when they set up a plant in Dongguan GPE they discovered that it was hard to obtain the paper rolls they needed and thus learned how to make them themselves . Now the company makes paper boxes both from rolled paper and from colored flat paper . To each its own domain Many companies have expanded into new business realms in Dongguan GPE . A frequently cited example is Primax ORG , H.D. Yeh 's PERSON electronics firm . The company rented a factory in Dongguan GPE in 1989 DATE and at first ORDINAL produced labor - intensive power surge protectors . After three years DATE , they began in 1992 DATE to invest massively on the mainland , establishing computer mouse production lines . Thereafter , Primax launched new products every year : cellular phone parts , overhead projectors , paper shredders , scanners . . . Constantly expanding its product lines and production capacity , Primax NORP expanded from a single Dongguan GPE plant with 25 CARDINAL workers in 1989 DATE to its current nine CARDINAL factories and 4,000 - plus QUANTITY workforce .

Primax PERSON 's performance , H.D. Yeh PERSON notes , pushed its mother company in Taiwan GPE to go public seven years ago DATE . Primax ORG is one CARDINAL of the few Taiwan GPE electronics companies with a definite " China GPE orientation . " " It does n't cost much to set up a factory in mainland China GPE , and shipping times are stable . These are helpful to the mother company both in terms of controlling costs and filling large orders , " says Yeh PERSON . Dongguan Hsu Fu Chi Foods PERSON , which sells candy , cakes and candied fruit in the mainland domestic market , is another good example . They began production there in 1992 DATE , formally opening their own plant in Dongguan GPE in 1994 DATE . The company now has three CARDINAL factories in Dongguan GPE , with a combined area of 120,000 square meters QUANTITY , that produce 200 tons QUANTITY of candy , 70 tons QUANTITY of Chinese NORP - style cakes , and 180 tons QUANTITY of gelatin and pudding a day . " We produce 300 CARDINAL - 500 container loads of food a month DATE . You can find our cakes in supermarkets all the way from Guangzhou GPE to Tibet GPE . " Norman Hsu PERSON , the company 's vice president , says that after one CARDINAL invests on the mainland , layouts of Taiwan GPE factories seem exceedingly cramped .

" There 's a totally different sense of space . " " Dongguan PERSON is by itself one CARDINAL - thirteenth the size of Taiwan GPE , " notes Chen Ming - chih PERSON , secretary general of the Taiwan Business Association ORG . In Dongguan GPE factories are more than ten CARDINAL times the sizes of similar plants in Taiwan GPE . One CARDINAL factory building at the Talingshan furniture plant is 380 meters QUANTITY long . Walking the perimeter of a leading electronics plant in Qishi is " like playing four holes of golf . " Like soldiers , workers often have to take different shifts in the cafeteria . The Pouchen GPE shoe plant , Dongguan GPE 's largest , employs 100,000 CARDINAL . The compound has a nursery , hospital and an operating room . " We always jokingly refer to it as Fort Pouchen PERSON , " says Yeh PERSON .

Victory to the strivers Although the Taiwan GPE firms in Dongguan GPE have left home , their success can largely be attributed to an ethos they transplanted from Taiwan GPE - that " victory goes to those who strive the hardest . " " In Taiwan GPE , we used to take the children somewhere fun on weekends and holidays , " says Chang Mei - liang PERSON of TBAD 's women 's division . But since she 's moved the factory , " there has n't been a single meal the whole family has eaten together . " If you want to open a plant on the mainland , you 're going to have to sacrifice family intimacy . " In Taiwan GPE , a boss just has to set the factory 's basic course and at the very most supervise the executives , " explains Sylvia Yang PERSON , the women 's division 's deputy chairperson . " But on the mainland , a boss has to supervise everything : customs , tax payments , workers ' disputes , meal preparation . . . . There 's always the feeling that everyone will start to slack off once the boss leaves . " All the job - related pressures and evenings out with fellow Taiwanese NORP business people or Communist Party ORG cadres result in ill health for many Taiwan GPE business people on the mainland . One CARDINAL of Chen PERSON 's tasks as chairperson of TBAD is to handle funeral arrangements for Taiwanese NORP business people there .

" Many of them die suddenly , " he says . The association has been trying to promote healthier lifestyles . " Instead of just going out to karaoke bars and drinking , why not play golf too , " recommends H.D. Yeh PERSON . Dongguan GPE has four CARDINAL or five CARDINAL golf courses within city limits . About 1,000 CARDINAL people play every day , and 80 - 90 % PERCENT of them are Taiwanese NORP . The Taiwanese NORP entrepreneurial spirit has blossomed here by processing goods for export through Hong Kong GPE in addition to making the most of connections between local Taiwan GPE firms . With 3,000 CARDINAL Taiwan GPE - owned businesses here , and 10 - 20,000 CARDINAL Taiwanese NORP business people and their dependants coming in and out every day , the Dong GPE - guan area has already developed an economic circle in which Taiwan GPE firms can conduct most of their business among themselves . In the vibrant district of Houjian NORP , there is an area that locals call Taiwan GPE Town . A casual look around reveals shop signs familiar to any Taiwanese NORP : Taichung Goose PERSON , Ah - shui Shih 's Pig Knuckle Kingdom , Yungho Soy Milk PERSON , the Mantu Hair Salon . . . . and most of the customers are Taiwanese NORP . Restaurants serve up authentic Taiwanese NORP fare like " pineapples and bitter melon chicken " and " sesame oil chicken . "

In November 1998 DATE Global Express ORG , a Taiwan GPE firm , even opened up a shuttle bus to Hong Kong 's GPE airport . Global Express ORG serves as a good example of Taiwanese NORP corporate agility . Originally , arrivals from Taiwan GPE en route to Dongguan had to board buses run by a Hong Kong GPE - based and mainland - financed travel agency . " But we felt that the service left something to be desired , and that a lot of time would always be wasted while holders of ' Taiwanese NORP Compatriot Visas ' cleared customs , " notes David Chang PERSON , Global Travel Holding 's ORG executive director . Two years ago DATE , this Taiwanese NORP travel agency began to talk with the mainland customs and border inspection agencies and negotiated a deal to get the route . " We tell Taiwanese NORP business people that riding our buses is safe , the service is good , and that it makes the trip through customs easy . " In enemy territory As soon as you 're through customs at Hong Kong GPE , you see them : women draped with beauty pageant - like sashes with the Chinese NORP characters for " Global Travel " emblazoned across them . Pushing small luggage carts , they lead customers to the buses .

They have become a " must - see " tourist sight for Taiwanese NORP visitors to Dongguan GPE . " At first ORDINAL we thought of talking with Hong Kong GPE airport about renting a counter , " explains Chang PERSON . " But for just one - fourth of a six CARDINAL square - meter booth , the rent comes to HK$ 200,000 MONEY . " So the company thought that instead of spending that much money on a booth it made more sense to lower operating costs and pass these along in the form of lower fares for its customers . They never expected that the luggage carts would in fact make it much easier for customers to find them in sprawling Hong Kong GPE airport and would become an easily recognizable company trademark . " Now mainland Chinese NORP travel agencies have started copying the way we use the carts , " says Chang PERSON , laughing . Since Global buses started plying this route in November 1988 DATE , daily DATE bus departures have risen from 4 CARDINAL to 27 , with over 20,000 CARDINAL riders a month . Global plans to introduce new services , including car rentals and plane ticket reservations and confirmations . Dongguan appears to have a bright future .

" The Taiwan GPE firms here now are powerful enough to get two CARDINAL or three CARDINAL members of the Legislative Yuan ORG to represent their interests , " holds one CARDINAL senior reporter . Although TBAD 's Yeh PERSON believes that investment prospects on the mainland are good , he does acknowledge the precariousness of their position in hostile territory . Taiwan GPE business interests can not put down their guard . Because of Taiwan GPE 's experience with rapid modernization , many CCP cadres have sought employment with Taiwanese NORP firms , hoping to learn from the masters . At the first ORDINAL opportunity , however , they leave to set up shop for themselves . " The student then challenges the master , " explains Sylvia Yang PERSON , detailing how these mainland upstarts go on to compete with the very Taiwan GPE firms that taught them all they know . This scenario should be familiar to Taiwanese NORP . " It happens in Taiwan GPE too . " Apart from keeping up their guard , it is even more important that Taiwan GPE firms raise their productivity and technological level . " Many manufacturers , even those in mainland China GPE , will not survive , " says Yeh PERSON .

Taiwan GPE firms find it difficult to adjust to the instability of the mainland 's investment environment , as well as the laws there that seemingly change overnight . The year before last the mainland announced a new tax system , under which raw materials imported by foreign firms would be taxed at a rate of 17 % PERCENT , with 9 % PERCENT being returned to the manufacturer when finished goods were exported . " When I went to Beijing GPE to negotiate , " recalls Yeh PERSON , " I asked cadres in the foreign trade office to consider the impact of the tax on the electronics industry . Profit margins are at best 3 - 5 % PERCENT . How can manufacturers afford to pay a 17 % PERCENT import tax ? " In June of last year DATE the PRC GPE authorities announced the " Document # 35 " rules . These stipulated that companies would be given grades according to the quantity of their exports and their records of breaking customs regulations . Those meriting only a B would have to offer a deposit of 40 - 50 % PERCENT against the value of their raw material imports . This terrified Taiwan GPE firms in Dongguan GPE . According to TBAD 's statistics , 75 % PERCENT of the Taiwanese NORP firms were given Bs .

The announcement caused quite a stir , but its effect on Taiwanese NORP investment is as yet unclear . In August of last year DATE , as the mainland customs authorities took aggressive moves against smuggling , 12 CARDINAL Taiwan GPE business people in Dongguan GPE were detained . The charges ran the gamut from not filling out proper forms to purchasing phony export contracts and trying to pass them off to customs . Seven CARDINAL business people were arrested and charged with smuggling and are still in jail . " I 'm constantly thinking about them . I 'm meditating and have gone vegetarian , but I 'm still not at peace , " Yeh PERSON says . On the mainland , the highest penalty for smuggling is death . " Last year DATE the mainland sent nine CARDINAL customs officers to the firing squad , " notes Yeh PERSON . The fate of these Taiwanese NORP businessmen will depend entirely on the mainland 's political climate .

Whether its arrival was by accident or design , a new age for Taiwanese NORP firms in Dongguan GPE is here . It is a far cry from the days DATE when Taiwan GPE firms enjoyed tremendous advantages . From the various revisions to trade law adopted by the PRC GPE last year DATE , Chang Han - wen PERSON extrapolates that the PRC GPE both wants to protect its uncompetitive state firms and turn from low - tech processing to high - tech production . " This is because state enterprises pressure the government with appeals about their right to survival , " Yeh PERSON says . When foreign firms in the mainland are confronted with threats to their safety and property , " Hong Kong GPE can count on the cooperation of the government , US GPE and Japanese NORP businesses can turn to their ambassadors , but what can Taiwan GPE firms do ? " asks Yeh PERSON . In Dongguan GPE they can help each other . Currently , more than 80 % PERCENT of the 3,000 CARDINAL Taiwanese NORP firms in Dongguan GPE have joined TBAD . TBAD has 29 CARDINAL local branches in Dongguan GPE and is , moreover , the only Taiwan GPE business association in mainland China GPE with a women 's division . Major companies listed on the TAIEX ORG , including Lite - on ORG Electronics and Delta Electronics , are members of TBAD . It is the largest and strongest of all Taiwan GPE business groups on the mainland both in terms of organization and operations .

Many Taiwanese NORP believe that at a time of cross-strait tension , Taiwan GPE firms have made their own decisions to invest in the mainland and therefore should bear the risk themselves too . And by investing their money , technology and so forth on the mainland , are they not to some degree abandoning Taiwan GPE ? TBAD takes issue with this view . H.D. Yeh PERSON points out that in 1998 DATE Taiwan GPE had an overall trade surplus of US$ 5.9 billion MONEY , and a surplus of US$ 12.76 billion MONEY with mainland China GPE . If not for its trade with the PRC GPE , therefore , Taiwan GPE would have had a trade deficit . " We make our money here , but we pay taxes in Taiwan GPE , and most of our families and children do most of their consumer spending in Taiwan GPE , " insists TBAD chairperson Chang Mei - liang PERSON . Chang PERSON notes that after the major earthquake in Taiwan GPE on September 21 DATE , Taiwan GPE business associations throughout mainland China GPE contributed NT$ 60 million MONEY . TBAD contributed NT$ 30 million MONEY all by itself . Hence , he argues that it 's very unfair to say that Taiwanese NORP businesses in the mainland are n't contributing to Taiwan GPE .

The question is , how should the ROC GPE government view Taiwan GPE firms in the mainland ? And for that matter how is the PRC GPE government looking at the Taiwanese NORP in Dongguan GPE ? TBAD 's spiritual leader H.D. Yeh PERSON often goes to Beijing GPE to represent Taiwan GPE firms in negotiations with the government . Once , in the presence of many Communist Party ORG cadres , a high - ranking official of the State Council 's ORG Taiwan Affairs Office ORG asked him this question : " You 've gathered so many Taiwan GPE firms in Dongguan GPE and stirred up such enthusiasm among them - but for what purpose ? " It threw him for a loop . Yeh PERSON is still trying to figure out what the mainland authorities think of TBAD . For Taiwan GPE firms in Dongguan GPE , investing in mainland China GPE is a road of no return . " In recent years DATE many Taiwan GPE business people have also tried to invest in Vietnam GPE , only later to close their factories there , " says Chang Han - wen PERSON . Mainland China ORG shares the same language as Taiwan GPE and it offers attractive investment conditions . It would be surprising if it did n't attract Taiwan GPE firms that are eager to set up offshore .

Amid the cross-strait political standoff , one CARDINAL can expect that Taiwan GPE firms in Dongguan GPE will continue to live out this exciting tale of gain and loss . -LRB- Jackie Cheng PERSON / photos by Diago Chiu PERSON / tr. by Jonathan Barnard PERSON -RRB- Source : Taiwan Business Association of Dongguan Graphic ORG by Tsai Chih - pen PERSON And in following up on the situation in Lebanon GPE , we are joined by our correspondent there , Mohammed Gharib PERSON . Mohammed PERSON , to begin with , uh , and after the latest statements by Fouad Siniora PERSON and also the address given by Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah PERSON to the opposition and to all the Lebanese NORP , has the political debate between the authorities and the opposition entered a phase of dangerous disclosures in your opinion ? Well , yeah , this is apparently the case yeah , Laure PERSON . But , yeah , the doors of dialogue , in all cases so far as the two CARDINAL sides are saying , remain open . Umm .

Yeah , but the opposition in return , I mean , yeah , says that any dialogue uh , uh , at least if , yeah , yeah , it takes place between the two CARDINAL sides , will only be alongside the popular opinion . That is , the opposition so far is saying that the street is the main path to , yeah , yeah , changing the government . And here , I have to point out that there is a fallacy , it seems that the media people -- the opposition is so far at the stage of demanding a change in the government and not the toppling of the government , which means that it is demanding a national unity government , yeah , yeah , or a change in the government through , yeah , yeah , I mean , yeah , keeping Prime Minister Siniora PERSON as Prime Minister and some of the current ministers , provided that , I mean , an agreement is reached to add some ministers to this current government . Yes . Well , Mohammed PERSON , uh , there is little hope , uh , on the issue of dialogue . Yes , okay , Sir the report called for dialog with Syria GPE and Iran GPE , but Bush PERSON doubted neighboring countries ' taking part in the talks at an international conference to support Iraq GPE . Does n't this contradict the administration 's approach to dealing with the Baker - Hamilton report ? Yes , first let me explain .

There is a call for an international conference and there is a call for a regional conference . the international conference , it appears that the Bush PERSON administration is not encouraged and is not enthusiastic about it . Abdul Aziz Al - Hakim PERSON expressed this when he was in Washington GPE this position as did Iraqi NORP President Talabani PERSON . But what is striking is that there is a possibility uh for a call for a regional conference . In my opinion , this , uh , is being encouraged by Washington GPE and perhaps through this conference , there will be a way in for , uh , the United States of America GPE to talk to Syria GPE and Iran GPE . Syria GPE and Iran GPE will of course be involved in this regional conference should it be held and I do n't think it would be wise and it would not be objective not to invite them to a conference dealing with Iraq GPE 's regional neighbors . The question is about the American NORP position . Will Washington GPE take this conference as a way of initiating a dialog with Syria GPE and Iran GPE or will it content itself with Syria GPE and Iran GPE 's participation being simply the outer limits or upper ceiling for talks with Syria GPE and Iran GPE at this stage ? Yes , from Washington GPE , Mr. Subhi Ghandour PERSON , director of the Arab Dialog Center ORG , thank you very much .

Ah undoubtedly ah a very hasty project , especially that the Hebrew ORDINAL State tried to implement this project alone , from the Mediterranean Sea LOC to the Red Sea LOC . And it was proved to them with certainty that the project is ineffective economically , as it will cost one and a half billion dollars MONEY . So they tried using their well - known means to transfer this project to another agency to implement it and finance it , while they reap the fruits from it . Aha , aha . They have many goals ah for such a project , the most important of which is to build one hundred CARDINAL new settlements they have been planning to establish in the Negev . Ah . But now the fear is that they plan to build them across the extension of the new canal line from the Red Sea LOC to the Dead Sea under various headers , including the headers ah of development and architecture and ah establishing new settlements . And since the subject has become open in Jordan GPE for everyone , there is no guarantee that the new construction projects that would be established on this line might reach the hands of the Zionists NORP . Aha . And they might repeat the story as they started it in Palestine GPE by building settlements , and the eastern mountains will become occupied to the Dead Sea LOC and Araba Valley GPE , occupied by the Zionists NORP .

Aha , aha . This project is extremely dangerous , except -- would n't it also contribute to completely connect the Palestinian NORP and Jordanian NORP economy to the Israeli NORP I mean , what generates from it , may be , of demographic , economic and development projects . Yes , more than this , I say ah this project is one CARDINAL of the American NORP - Israeli NORP projects in the region which aim in the end at incorporating ah Israel GPE in the Jordanian NORP society and in the Arab NORP society ah and marketing it in this way . Huge tremendous joint projects ah ah that guarantee the security and stability of the region as it is said , but they will bring us very big losses . Aha -- This project has engineering damages , environmental damages , military damages and political damages on Jordanian NORP society . May , you made reference at the beginning of this meeting to the butcher child or the Turbini GPE in Egypt GPE . What are the details ?

Well , he is nicknamed , uh , uh , like this , Turbini ORG , and he is the leader of a murderous gang in Egypt GPE , and he has chosen the railroad tracks as the stage for his crimes . In any case , we selected from the Qatari NORP newspaper Al - Watan ORG , uh , Amal PERSON , an article entitled The Fourth Class in Egypt : the Street Children by Habashi Rushdi PERSON , and he discusses , uh , the causes of the appearance of such gangs and such children , uh , in Egypt GPE . The writer , uh , says that this class , the Fourth Class , is not from families like the three CARDINAL traditional classes , and their armies , who live in the open air also live in a wilderness of ethical values , so there is no discipline , and no upbringing . And what is striking in this matter is that it is an extension of the class of poor people who live in chaotic neighborhoods that are never reached by the helping hand of the government . And only as a reminder , May DATE , the streets of Egyptian NORP cities encompass two million CARDINAL children who are runaways from their families , according to the latest statistics ; a very large number , May DATE . yes , you know , he also says , uh , the author , that the Egyptian street , uh , abandons those with apathy to unknowingly create the most hardened criminals , whose crimes will soon make the headlines of the events pages of the newspapers . He goes on , By putting the underlying origin of the , uh , street children class in Egypt GPE under the microscope , you will find that one CARDINAL of the most dangerous reasons behind their growth is the chaotic migration from the countryside to the cities , and to a certain extent , the ruralization of the cities and the urbanization of the countryside . And -- Yes , the unfortunate thing too in all of this , May DATE , is that millions CARDINAL among the wealthy are lost in deep sleep while there are millions CARDINAL of children out in the streets . Uh , yes , well , and uh , also here the author says : What is required is not for the police to put these children in youth shelters for them to escape and go back to the streets , because the children have searched by themselves for freedom they did not have in their families , so they resorted to the streets , so do not save their lives by using the police , but through social fathers and mothers who will return them to their families and provide their families with security and safety and correct the life of every child among them .

-- basically , it was unanimously agreed upon by the various relevant parties . To express its determination , the Chinese NORP securities regulatory department compares this stock reform to a die that has been cast . It takes time to prove whether the stock reform can really meet expectations , and whether any deviations that arise during the stock reform can be promptly corrected . Dear viewers , the China News program will end here . This is Xu Li PERSON . Thank you everyone for watching . Coming up is the Focus Today ORG program hosted by Wang Shilin PERSON . Good-bye , dear viewers .

Hello , dear viewers . Welcome to Focus Today ORG . Today DATE , let 's turn our attention to a road cave - in accident that happened in Beijing GPE over the holiday . Before dawn on January 3 DATE , a sewage pipe leakage accident occurred at the main and side roads of Jingguang Bridge GPE , East Third Ring Road , Beijing Municipality PERSON , resulting in the road caving in . Relevant departments from Beijing GPE Municipality promptly activated emergency contingency plans . The traffic administration department carried out traffic supervision near the accident scene . Well , how did the emergency response mechanisms activated by governmental departments operate effectively during the holiday ? After the holiday , what will be done to handle citizens ' peak commute ? In addition , what measures did relevant departments take to resolve issues such as waste discharge , heating , and communication , in order to ensure that the lives of citizens were not affected ? Well , we have invited two CARDINAL honorable guests to the studio today DATE to follow this topic with us .

One CARDINAL of the two CARDINAL honorable guests in the studio is Professor Zhou Hanhua PERSON from the Institute of Law of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences ORG . Hello . Next is Yang Yang PERSON , a host of Beijing Traffic Radio Station ORG . Hello . Welcome both of you to the studio to participate in our program . Well , I especially want to know , ha , how the two CARDINAL of you found out the news on the day of the accident ? Ah , , about 11:00 m. yesterday DATE , ah , I happened to find out through an SMS when I was outside . Uh-huh . Uh-huh . It happened that I was going to have lunch with a friend , um , at noon TIME .

And then , the friend first ORDINAL sent me an SMS , Uh-huh . saying he would come pick me up to go together . After that , I received an SMS from 1860 DATE . Uh-huh , it was through an SMS . And you , Yang Yang PERSON ? A friend happened to call me . You were not at work that day ? No . The station called me at noon TIME and said something happened at Jingguang Bridge FAC and that I had to go to the station immediately to research the upcoming program . Uh-huh , that means , er , you found out the accident through an information source at the station . Right , right , right .

Uh-huh . Well , like Professor Zhou PERSON , I also received this news , ha , through a mobile phone SMS . At that time , , it can be said that this SMS was among the many , ha , SMS containing New Year EVENT wishes , like Happy New Year , received after the start of the New Year . Uh-huh . Ah , actually I felt a lot of warmth when I received that SMS . Although we live in the west instead of the east and it did not affect us much , I think it is very useful , ah , to inform people of this kind of news . Yes , exceptionally . Yes , exceptionally . Well , what in fact was the content of that SMS ?

Let 's take a look via this footage , ha . I remember the SMS was written like this at that time , saying that , ah , there was a sewage pipe leakage accident on the side road at the southeast corner of Jingguang Bridge LOC at East Third Ring Road LOC , and , well , traffic supervision was implemented near Chaoyang Road FAC , Jingguang Bridge PERSON , and East Third Ring Road LOC , and requesting cars to make a detour . Some car owners said that it was very good that the SMS was sent . Furthermore , there was one CARDINAL last sentence in that SMS thanking citizens for their cooperation and support . Ah , after the SMS was sent , , I felt it seems to be the first ORDINAL time that Beijing Municipality GPE , ah , used an SMS to give notification at the time of a public emergency . I do n't know , all of us are living in Beijing GPE , is this the first ORDINAL time , Professor Zhou PERSON ? Yes , in terms of an official notification , this should be the first ORDINAL time one CARDINAL was sent officially through 1860 DATE . Uh-huh . Of course , in private life , people have used SMS countless times to spread news . Yes .

Other places in the country must have used this too . Uh-huh , uh-huh . Must have used this too . Actually , I remember receiving an SMS like this one last year before it snowed , since snowfall would affect road conditions in Beijing GPE to a rather large extent . Uh-huh . However , it did not give people such a special feeling as it did this time . Uh-huh . Ah , when an SMS is sent to inform citizens of such an incident , can it be considered a work method or expression of government information transparency ? Yes , this is indeed through the very successful response to this emergency , ah , by Beijing Municipality PERSON , Uh-huh . an extremely good point that is worth pondering deeply , worthy innovation . Uh-huh .

For instance , previously our news announcements were made through some conventional methods , but this time it was made in the form of a mobile phone SMS . In fact , this is a method highly emphasized in various countries ' development of e-government . We usually make it sound like e-government is something unattainable . Yes , when we talked about e-government in the past , it seemed to be only done through the Internet . Right . It seemed that computers , ah , and the Internet , ah , were an expression of e-government , to let people find out information . Well , presently in fact , e-governments in various countries apply this so - called last multiple - exposure method , such as call centers , such as electronic IDs , and such as , these electronic signatures . These are quite sophisticated forms . Uh-huh .

In particular , more terminals , such as , this cable television , ah , , this digital television , ah , and mobile phone SMS , are applied in e-government . Hence , I think this is , a test of e-government because , as I remember , during SARS in 2003 DATE , people at that time criticized e-government during the spread of SARS , ah . Uh-huh . They said that e-government was very good but was not put into use . Well , this time I think that a short SMS like this can fully create interaction between the government and the public through this e-government form . Uh-huh . Yes . We drive often in Beijing GPE , ha , Yang Yang PERSON . If people were not informed of such a traffic accident through SMS on that day and they continued to head there , what do you think would happen if people did not know what was going on and the jam did not clear ? Yes .

Ah , well , I think it would have been real paralysis . This is the most appropriate word to use . Furthermore , I think that when SMS was used to announce the news , it should be said to have fit the conditions in our China GPE very well . Why is that so ? This is because , it should be said that China GPE is the country with the highest SMS usage . There are probably not as many chances to use SMS in foreign countries compared with domestically , in China GPE , ah . So , it can be said that penetration was quite high this time , by using the most familiar method , most used by everyone , as well as the most prompt and most convenient method , for the announcement . Yes , I noticed that many friends , around me received it . It seems that almost everyone received this SMS . Yes .

Yes . The effect was extremely good , ha . So , how exactly did citizens react ? Let 's take a look at the reactions of citizens . -- an SMS . I saw it was that Jingguang Bridge LOC . Hey , I say , this is quite good , quite good . Have you received information like this before ? No , no .

This was the first ORDINAL time . The first ORDINAL time ? Yes , yes . Well , what do you think of the speed at which the government responded this time ? Quite fast . Really quite fast , ah . So , I did not drive today . I set out a bit earlier and took the subway here . Do you think that the response of the government was fast this time ? Ah , the response was quite fast .

In addition , various media announcements were also quite prompt . Colleagues and friends also informed one another by phone calls and SMS . I think this plan was quite speedy . It seems that through this kind of SMS , citizens responded very well and the effect was excellent , ha . Well , apart from the , ah , point on information disclosure brought out by this accident , the fact is that the activation of emergency contingency plans by the , ah , government has also left people with a very deep impression . Let 's find out the situation at that time through some footage . Well , we know that after the road cave - in accident , ah , ah , traffic police and emergency rescue personnel rushed to the scene , ah , to direct traffic and carry out emergency repair of sewage pipes . Well , lots of barricade tape has been strung up on the side road in the north - south direction of the accident scene beneath the Jingguang Bridge FAC at East Third Ring Road LOC . All personnel responsible for the emergency repair of underground sewage pipes , ah , have arrived at their designated locations . See , through this footage , we see , ah , this --

Uh-huh . Okay , ah , , this emergency repair worker said that he was there at 4 o'clock . That means that they arrived at the scene right after the pre-dawn accident occurred . Well , it can be said that the traffic administration department was activated very quickly after receiving the news . Well , ah , Yang Yang PERSON , you work at Traffic Radio Station ORG , ha , well , and we know that you all gave an extensive live broadcast this morning . A special program . Yes , a special program on this traffic . So , let 's first ORDINAL turn our attention to the impact on traffic after the accident . Judging from the traffic control measures taken after the accident , as well as the eventual impact caused , what do you think are the effects ?

Actually , concerning this , I think both of you are very familiar with the traffic in Beijing GPE . Previously we had a statistic , especially for the ring roads in Beijing GPE . That is , if we have an ordinary fender bender or tailgate accident on a bridge such as the Jingguang Bridge of the FAC Third Ring Road , it might cause the entire Third Ring Road WORK_OF_ART to have bumper - to - bumper traffic jams during these morning TIME and evening TIME peak periods . Uh-huh . It might even impact traffic on the Second Ring Road and Fourth Ring Road . Well , ah , if there is an accident , from the time it occurs until the time all traffic is cleared , it probably takes about half an hour to an hour during peak periods . Well , we could not imagine imposing temporary traffic restriction measures on a long section of road stretching from Jingguang Bridge LOC to Changhong Bridge GPE from the south all the way to Guomao Bridge PERSON , blocking the main and side roads . Well , the situation would be unthinkable during this peak period that is the first day of work for everyone . Hence , at that time , before 6:30 TIME a .m . today , before our live broadcast , we moved the broadcast forward , and before the live broadcast we were very worried . However , actually after the entire day today DATE , I came here right after ending the live broadcast this evening to continue with the live broadcast here , in fact , in Beijing GPE today DATE people indeed experienced an extremely high volume of traffic flow on the roads surrounding the section under traffic control , and indeed there was a very big traffic jam .

Uh-huh . However , the affected area was not as large as expected . Moreover , some people made detours once they received the news . Right . Psychologically , people felt quite relieved . Because I know this situation . Right , like those whom we interviewed just now . It was easy to handle once everyone understood . Yes , ah , , a citizen , he said , I set out today before the incident , and I did not drive after I was informed . That person did not even drive .

Right . Actually , in this aspect , I think that citizens were really quite cooperative . For instance , this evening TIME , we , received an SMS . A friend said , I work on the 12th floor of the China World Trade Center ORG at the Guomao Bridge FAC , ah . We were discussing that we could go home in fewer cars since everyone was on the same route . Later on , we suggested to him and said , you , ah , might as well take the subway , because you can directly reach the subway once you get down from the China World Trade Center ORG . Right . Hey , he said this was quite a good idea . Actually , I think everyone was quite cooperative and also quite supportive in this aspect .

Yes , many , viewers not in Beijing GPE may not be quite familiar , ah , with this road section we just mentioned , where , ah , the accident occurred . Ah , we can take a look later through an animation . This road represents a main road on East Third Ring Road LOC , with problems on both the main and side roads . Furthermore , Chaoyang Road PERSON is an intersection . Uh-huh . Whether it is Chaoyang Road PERSON in the east - west direction or the main and side roads of East Third Ring Road LOC in the south - north direction , as we can see from this diagram , it can be said that the area at the main and side roads of East Third Ring Road LOC normally has quite heavy traffic , especially during commuting times . Well , Chaoyang Road PERSON is a very important artery in the east - west direction . Yes . When people living in the west want to cross over from the city , they have to go via this road . Hence , if a traffic accident occurs at this place , we can indeed imagine , ha , how widespread , ah , the extent of the impact will be , such as the number of cars caught in traffic jams .

Yes , actually I think everyone can see that from the buses that cross Jingguang Bridge LOC . Yes . As buses that cross the Third Ring Road are currently , right now affected by the Jingguang Bridge FAC accident , ah , the latest results this morning TIME show that 32 CARDINAL bus routes throughout the neighborhood have had to be rerouted . Uh-huh . Well , I think that perhaps many friends in other places are wondering how one CARDINAL place is able to accommodate 32 CARDINAL commuter routes . If the accident did not happen , perhaps everyone would not know that this place could normally have so many -- It is really like this , just look at the bus signs . Right . Have not seen so many buses . Right .

Its effect on people has been extremely extensive . Yes . Uh-huh . Well , what measures did the traffic control department eventually take to direct traffic ? Our correspondent specially interviewed Director Meng Xianlong PERSON , Mr. Meng Xianlong PERSON , of the Command Center of the Beijing Municipal Traffic Administration ORG . Let 's hear what Director Meng PERSON said . Um , our traffic control department immediately activated the traffic emergency response plan . In the roads close to where the problem emerged , we first ORDINAL set up traffic diversion points for traffic control at the southern and northern ends . In this way , all vehicles going along East Third Ring Road LOC had to make a detour to go on roads on the east and west sides .

East Third Ring Road LOC is a traffic artery in the east of Beijing GPE that links the north and the south . In order to ensure smooth traffic in the eastern district , we formulated a set of traffic diversion control plans . We set up traffic diversion points at 68 CARDINAL locations along East Second Ring Road LOC , East Fourth Ring Road LOC , West Dawang Road GPE , ah , and related roads to the east and west , and deployed more than 210 CARDINAL additional police officers to divert and direct traffic . It can be said that measures were very promptly taken . Ah , today DATE is the first ORDINAL workday after the New Year EVENT holiday . Well , what exactly was the situation this morning TIME ? We specially sent a reporter to the scene this morning to shoot some footage . Let 's take a look at the situation this morning TIME through this footage . Well , from this footage , we can see that , ha , at East Third Ring Road LOC , ah , near Guanghua Bridge LOC , the roads here that lead to the vicinity of Jingguang Bridge LOC have come under control and , well , various kinds of signs have also been placed at very conspicuous locations . Although the outdoor temperature in Beijing GPE has fallen to minus 3 degrees CARDINAL , the traffic police deployed additional manpower on the roads to direct traffic , ah , and guide drivers in making detours .

Well , since direction of traffic was carried out on the periphery , the number of vehicles at the section of the accident was significantly less than usual , with road traffic very orderly . Ah , it can be said , ah , Yang Yang PERSON , citizens , regardless of whether they took the bus or drove , their mentality , in terms of being understanding or calm , ah , was a very important factor in having orderly traffic at the scene . Uh-huh . Right , right . , through your listeners , what kind of feedback did you find out from them ? Actually , this morning , some listeners , ah , also happened to tell us about it via mobile phone SMS . Since we know that Jingguang Bridge PERSON is located in the CBD district , well there are many office buildings , ah , a lot of them , as well as quite a lot of friends who get up early in the morning to go to work . Therefore , they sent SMS saying , hey , it is unusual , ah , for me to be walking to the bus station today DATE or going to take the bus . Well , it is unusual for me to enjoy a very pleasant morning .

We then reminded everyone to wear extra clothing . This shows that when people encounter such kind of emergency , they have started to be able to face it with a very calm and pleasant state of mind . I think that this mentality in facing emergencies , in one CARDINAL respect shows a great change of mentality that Beijing GPE citizens now have after enduring several tests in the past , and a kind of calmness and maturity after having experienced frustrations . On the other hand , I think it can also fully show the level of people 's satisfaction with emergency mechanisms of the operational departments of the government in handling this incident . That is , they think that the government has tried its best . Well , in this respect , we citizens should also contribute our efforts . Uh-huh . As such , in this regard , I think people 's mentality can become very calm . Uh-huh .

Well , Professor Zhou PERSON , from this perspective , is this one CARDINAL highly positive effect achieved after information was disclosed ? Yes . In terms of citizens ' mentality . Yes , in fact it can be seen from this particular case . That is , when the government was handling this kind of public emergency , well , it went from a traditionally unilateral administrative management method , well , a method in which information was quite delayed , to disclosure and transparency of information , and very fast as well . We know that in the past , disclosure of information had to be reported to higher authorities , level by level , until the highest authorities had given approval , before information could be disclosed . Time was lost . Well , yes , the State Council ORG has , er , put forth a regulation concerning the establishment of public early warning mechanisms . That is , related information that can be publicized will be publicized first ORDINAL , in order to guide people in what to do . In this way , related interaction between the government and the people can be formed .

That is , in modern public management , ah , this is a very good case , that is , of shifting from a kind of unilateral administrative management to public management and to positive interaction between the government and the people . I think in fact , we can sum up many beneficial experiences from this case and actually extend them to other areas . Yes , this is when we look at this case from the perspective of traffic . Traffic was the first ORDINAL thing to be impacted when this , cave - in accident occurred . However , this accident actually involved many underground pipes , such as sewage pipes , ah , or water , ah , and gas , ah , pipes , that affect the lives of citizens in many other aspects . Yes . Yang Yang PERSON , do you know how many pipes there are underground ? Right now , there should be seven CARDINAL main types of pipes buried underground . They include those like you just mentioned , as well as pipes like those for heating and communication , among others .

Truly PERSON , these pipes are closely linked to the lives of citizens . Closely linked . Yes , therefore besides our attention to the traffic issue just now , people are also very concerned , ah , with the situation after the accident , with other aspects affecting citizens ' lives . Let 's take a look again at this footage of the situation of dealing with the current scene . Ah , according to our understanding of the situation , the Beijing Municipal Construction Commission ORG , ah , the Communication Commission ORG , ah , and telecommunication , traffic , and other departments have assigned personnel to participate in emergency repair work . Relevant departments said that they will adopt a full range of measures to minimize the level of impact on people 's daily DATE lives and work , in order to ensure stable order in society during the recovery period . Well , looking at the government 's response to this cave - in accident , ah , we should say it was very prompt with traffic management and emergency repair , ah , because it involved various aspects of life . Well , ah , Professor Zhou PERSON , as this incident involved many departments after it took place , how do you think the various departments should coordinate between themselves ? Yes .

This is also -- It is not the case that this problem will be totally solved when one CARDINAL department shows up . Yes , I think as we build this kind , er , of public , this kind of emergency mechanism for public incidents , ah , has been the , most difficult to resolve , an actual problem that has been the most difficult to resolve among administrative management reforms in various countries . How many groups of people will be sent ? Many groups . Yes , this is because social management requires division of labor in society . It is necessarily a labor division trend that involves many departments , and in addition , a kind of modern management public administration model which is diversified . Uh-huh . How can cooperation be formed between departments in this kind of situation ? Well , sometimes under normal circumstances , sometimes , we often feel that it is very difficult for departments to cooperate with one CARDINAL another .

For instance , there are too many law enforcement departments and , ah , too many administrative departments , and very often in the end , they are unable to coordinate . However , this time , through the execution of emergency contingency plans by Beijing GPE Municipality this time , ah , it should be said that the response speed of the different departments of Beijing Municipality GPE , as well as the integrated emergency mechanisms , played a great role . Hence , I think this was also a kind of , er , trial of interdepartmental cooperation mechanisms . Uh-huh . It was a very successful , er , response . I think many good things can be summed up from this . Yes . Yang Yang PERSON , based on your understanding , ah , as pipes that directly affect many common people 's lives were damaged after the accident , based on your understanding of the situation , how was remedial work carried out ? For instance , it is very cold during winter in Beijing GPE , and the temperature last night TIME dropped to one CARDINAL of the lowest points recently . Er , heating pipes were indeed damaged .

Well , at the time , it affected residents living in an area of about 70,000 CARDINAL square meters of Beijing GPE . Well , , in this regard , the Chaoyang GPE district government did a very good job . After it , er , received this order from the municipal government , it immediately sent , electric heaters to residents in more than 200 CARDINAL households within this area . It should be said that many residents spent quite a warm night at home yesterday DATE . Well , furthermore , in the emergency repair process , ah , it should be said that the heating pipeline was restored relatively quickly . Hence , over here , I think the municipal government , ah , including sub-district offices , made a lot of effort to take good care of resident households . I think it was done in a very humanitarian manner . Uh-huh . Uh-huh .

Professor Zhou PERSON , actually for such a large scale city as Beijing GPE that has more than 14 million CARDINAL people , ah , for such a big city , a suddenly occurring public emergency like this should be said to be relatively common . Yes . I think it should be unexpected yet at the same time within expectations . For instance , we see that other , er , domestic and overseas cities have experienced similar incidents . Perhaps many overseas cities have had such kind of thing before . This is because a city is a gathering place for modern life . It is a highly civilized place , as well as , however , in fact a gathering point for various conflicts , social , economic , security , various aspects of conflict . Hence it is not at all surprising for such an accident to occur . The critical thing is -- But the critical thing is how emergency plans are activated after the occurrence of such accidents , and for a city , this is a test of its response capabilities .

Yes . Yes . Yes , I think through a few incidents that happened in Beijing GPE Municipality over recent years DATE , such as SARS , the snowfall a few years ago DATE , the heavy rains two years ago DATE , and the road cave - in at East Third Ring Road LOC this time , I think it can be seen that Beijing Municipality 's response capabilities continued to improve each time . Right . It can be said that this time , what was done has received favorable comments from everyone . Um , well , I think , Yang Yang PERSON , perhaps you have stronger feelings on this aspect , ah . Yes . Because you often have this kind of direct SMS exchange with listeners . It is because , we , Beijing Traffic Radio Station ORG , has become a part of emergency planning in Beijing GPE .

Well , Beijing Traffic Radio Station ORG is to be activated as a media for emergency plans that are grade three CARDINAL and above . Well , for instance , as people still vividly remember , at the time of that snowfall just mentioned by Professor Zhou PERSON that people still vividly remember , there were no plans . Beijing GPE Municipality still had no emergency plan . Well , at that time , it happened that I was hosting the Unblocked All the Way program in the studio that evening TIME . Well , at that time , traffic was not at all unblocked . Ah , at that time there was none of this kind of interaction . It was not clear , it was very congested . You sat inside the studio and only knew about the heavy snowfall . You could find out other news only by telephone . The various methods and channels were extremely unclear .

Well , later , when we experienced that rainfall in Beijing GPE , that rainfall two years ago DATE , as well as some days of sand storms , all channels and early warning mechanisms were activated in quite an orderly manner . From our perspective as media , I think it was precisely by going through those breaking - in , trials that we could be so calm in handling such an emergency today DATE , ah , and give everyone the most effective announcements and notifications , and instructions . Yes , therefore , as a local media in this city , it should become a proactive participant when there is a public emergency in the city . Yes . It should play its individual role in the process of resolving emergencies . Ah , apart from this , Professor Zhou PERSON , what do you think are the areas for improvement for a city , especially a booming city , when handling this kind of public emergency ? Right , I think this gave us many revelations , ah . First , I think one that should be especially important is early warnings and forecasts . This is because currently , there are , ah , frequently various kinds of risks lurking in cities , ah .

Early warnings and forecasts . Yes , this kind of early warning and forecast mechanism . Uh-huh . It is not only for , this kind of sudden road cave - in , it also includes , for instance , security incidents , ah , in our society , as well as natural disasters , ah , and including public health incidents . Uh-huh . That is , this kind of scientific early warning and forecast mechanism must be set up . Uh-huh . In this way , you can manage and resolve an abnormal situation by turning it into a normal situation , without evolving into a sudden public emergency . Uh-huh . Another thing I want to say is that besides , ah , emergency response and speedy integration mechanisms , I think some corresponding improvements should be made to the release of information , incident investigation , ah , and the relevant post-incident , responsibility system .

In fact , , that is , we should say that the government already has quite a number of relevant systems in this respect . For instance , we have an administrative investigation system for incidents of major responsibility . We have regulations on investigation procedures for very major incidents , as well as others such as emergency response methods for handling public health incidents and public health emergencies , among others . That is to say , we have many corresponding systems . However , the question is how city management , er , handles these various kinds of perhaps unpredictable cases . Since we are entering new circumstances of human living , circumstances that contain high risk and have an increasingly developed urbanized life , well , I think corresponding improvements should be made to the formation of a series of systems that includes scientific planning , early warning and forecast , emergency response , accident investigation , and accountability . Um , well , based on your understanding of the situation , and from an international perspective , what are some better ways of urban management that are worthwhile for us to learn ? I think , in comparison to China GPE , we should say that urbanization in foreign countries developed earlier and is more widespread . Their level of development is more advanced than ours .

Although the scale of our urbanization is currently expanding at a rate of 1 % PERCENT per year , I think , with our economic development being relatively backward , we actually still have many aspects of urban management to learn from foreign countries . For instance , many of the pipes involved in this incident were basic infrastructure , public utilities industries . With a background of liberalization , marketization , and privatization , how can the government strengthen supervision of public utilities industries ? How can a safe , assured system be established ? Well , we need to learn and manage this . Uh-huh . For instance , regarding information disclosure , well , our speed of information disclosure this time was very fast . However , we still have a lot of work to do in making the information disclosure , er , system more standardized , that is , to really implement a system of levels of responsibility . Well , we also need to explore how cooperation mechanisms between departments execute cooperation under normal situations and , well , how departments should cooperate with one CARDINAL another under these kinds of public emergency circumstances . Well , for some of our emergency contingency plans , well , ah , how will these emergency contingency plans withstand these tests ?

We know that currently , many ministries and commissions , as well as people 's governments at the provincial level , along with those at municipal and district levels , have set up emergency contingency plans for public emergencies , but many of them have not been put to the test . Well , how will they undergo testing ? These also include some of our command and policy - making systems . So , with the growth of urbanization and with more and more of such complicated issues , ah , I think there will be increasingly high requirements on the systems . That is , development of future systems is one CARDINAL of the top current priorities . How can we institutionalize our response mechanisms and make them into a system so as to ensure the lifestyle of people who live in such a large - scale city ? The State Council ORG has proposed a public emergency contingency plan , called One CARDINAL Plan , Three Systems ORG . Uh-huh . " One CARDINAL plan " refers to the contingency plan , and " three CARDINAL systems " refers to systems of organizations , mechanisms , and laws . So , I think we still have a lot of work to do in these three CARDINAL areas of organizations , mechanisms , and laws .

Yes . Well , finally , let 's turn our attention to handling of the situation , ah , during the latter stages of the cave - in accident in Beijing GPE . Traffic , ah , can be said to have been directed , and is basically under control now . Well , following this , repairs have to be made on this road section where the accident occurred , including for many pipes . Well , Yang Yang PERSON , based on your understanding , how long will it take ? I think that the time really depends on how the overall repair goes . This is because exploration , assessment , and repair are carried out in succession . Therefore , regarding this work progress , to repair this road section in the shortest time , um , this will depend on the work progress . Uh-huh .

This is because repair is probably not a matter of repairing the road surface alone . There is also an issue with many of the pipes below . Yes , the pipes below . Right , as it is winter DATE , we know that carrying out construction during winter DATE , especially that which requires pouring concrete and then -- Moreover , it is especially difficult for concrete to set during winter DATE . Yes , preparation mix for making it dry faster , has already been added . But in the end , it requires time . Hence , it depends very much on factors like temperature . Just now , you mentioned that there are many pipes , ah , for instance , there is a key heating pipeline . The first ORDINAL thing is to ensure that it is connected in time .

Yes . In addition , waste discharge is also very important . Waste discharged has currently blocked this up . Um , and , for instance , optical fibers , ah . Er , right now , if the optical fibers break , people in many households will not be able to watch television . Yes . At present , we should not have a problem with watching television . They are not broken . It is just that , as the other pipes have to be repaired , the optical fibers have to be rearranged , to be hung up it seems . After that , or it seems that a few steel pipes have been added below to make it safer to walk across this section .

Furthermore , let 's take water pipes as an example . Because they were exposed , The water pipes were not -- after that , yes , these were not damaged . they were not damaged and this is quite normal . Um , there is no problem with water supply . Okay , well , today DATE both of you have come to the studio and given us a lot of specific details concerning this road cave - in accident in Beijing GPE Municipality . At the same time , you have also analyzed , from a system perspective , how the government has reinforced emergency contingency plans to handle such public emergency cases . Okay , thank you very much , Professor Zhou PERSON and Yang Yang PERSON , for coming to the studio to participate in our program . Thank you , both of you . Okay , dear viewers , that is all for today DATE 's edition of Focus Today ORG .

Thank you for watching . See you at the same time tomorrow DATE . Hello . Let 's turn our attention to the weather . Today , we can use two CARDINAL words to summarize the weather in our country . First ORDINAL , there will be a temperature drop over a large area , and next , there will be rainfall and snowfall in an extensive area as well . We see that except for some areas of South China GPE , Southwest China GPE , and Northeast China LOC , many other places will be experiencing temperature drops . In addition , there will be snowfall in the area from Northwest China LOC to the Huang - Huai area through southern North China LOC . The east of Southwest China GPE , as well as the Jiang - Huai area and the area south of the Yangtze River LOC , will experience continuous rainfall .

However , southern North China LOC and the Huang - Huai area will bid farewell to the snow tonight TIME , ah . Tomorrow during the day DATE , snowfall in the Jiang - Huai area will stop , and there will also be less snow in Northwest China GPE . In addition , there will be rain throughout almost the whole of South China LOC . It can be said that there will be less snow in the north and heavier rain in the south tomorrow DATE . Furthermore , temperatures tomorrow DATE in many places south of the Huai River LOC will fall by between four CARDINAL and ten degrees . Okay , let 's check out the city weather forecasts . Beijing GPE , overcast changing to sunny , 9 degrees below zero QUANTITY to 2 degrees below zero QUANTITY . Harbin GPE , sunny , 26 degrees below zero QUANTITY to 16 degrees below zero QUANTITY . Shijiazhuang GPE , overcast changing to mostly cloudy , 9 degrees below zero QUANTITY to 1 degree below zero QUANTITY . Jinan GPE , overcast changing to mostly cloudy , 9 degrees below zero QUANTITY to 1 degree below zero QUANTITY .

Nanjing GPE , sleet changing to overcast , 3 degrees below zero QUANTITY to 3 degrees QUANTITY . Hangzhou GPE , sleet changing to overcast , to 4 degrees QUANTITY . Fuzhou GPE , light rain , 11 CARDINAL to 18 degrees QUANTITY . Taipei GPE , cloudy changing to showers , 13 CARDINAL to 19 degrees QUANTITY . Dalian GPE , sunny , 11 degrees below zero QUANTITY to 5 degrees below zero QUANTITY . Wuxi GPE , sleet changing to cloudy , 1 degree below zero QUANTITY to 3 degrees QUANTITY . Changzhou GPE , moderate snow to light snow , 3 degrees below zero QUANTITY to 3 degrees QUANTITY . Bangkok GPE , cloudy , 26 CARDINAL to 35 degrees QUANTITY . New Dehli GPE , sunny , 6 CARDINAL to 19 degrees QUANTITY . Seoul GPE , overcast changing to mostly cloudy , 8 degrees below zero QUANTITY to 3 degrees below zero QUANTITY .

Tokyo GPE , overcast , 1 CARDINAL to 6 degrees QUANTITY . London GPE , overcast changing to light rain , 2 CARDINAL to 6 degrees QUANTITY . Moscow GPE , cloudy , 18 degrees below zero QUANTITY to 13 degrees below zero QUANTITY . Paris GPE , overcast , 1 CARDINAL to 4 degrees QUANTITY . Vienna GPE , moderate snow , 1 degree below zero QUANTITY to 1 degree QUANTITY . New York GPE , light rain , 1 CARDINAL to 3 degrees QUANTITY . Seattle GPE , light rain , 4 CARDINAL to 7 degrees QUANTITY . Washington GPE , cloudy , 2 CARDINAL to 6 degrees QUANTITY . -LSB- -RSB-

Children are left at home in the rural areas , after parents leave to work in the city . These are called left - behind children . The parents are also forced to work in the city . In fact , they have no alternatives but to make such a decision . There are 120 million CARDINAL farmers who work in the city all year round in China GPE , thus creating nearly 20 million CARDINAL left - behind children . I want to tell them that I miss them a lot . Day after day and year after year DATE , they long for love in loneliness and wait for family affection in defect . I think that it is especially important to have emotional exchanges with the children . Visit the children more often whenever possible . -LSB- -RSB-

In September 2005 DATE , a study report titled " Concern for Left - behind WORK_OF_ART Children " had drawn wide public attention . While the situation of peasant workers in the city has repeatedly put society into question , the phenomenon of left - behind children in rural areas has gradually entered the view of the public . Ye Jingzhong PERSON is the assistant dean of the College of Humanities and Development ORG at China Agricultural University ORG , and team leader of the Left - behind Children Task Force ORG . In the last two years DATE , he has led the task force to conduct many field interviews and investigations on left - behind children in numerous rural areas in central and western China GPE , including Shaanxi GPE , Ningxia GPE , Hebei GPE , and Beijing GPE . Why did you pick the central and western parts of China GPE , and not the south , to conduct this study ? First ORDINAL of all , for people who work in the city from the central and western regions um , uh , according to their educational level , they generally engage in strenuous manual labor when they leave for the city to work . They are not in a position to bring their children to the city . When we conducted this research study , our focus was to analyze the impact on children when their parents , work in the city . , its main impact is the lack of love because of the absence of their parents . Therefore , we believe that whether it 's in southern or northern part , no matter which part of the country the research is conducted in , the results should be consistent .

According to your estimation , how many left - behind children are there in China GPE now ? This group should be the biggest in number . Um , the most conservative statistics for the group of people who leave the country to work in the city in our country is 100 million CARDINAL . Nowadays , um , , um , many places , um , cite a figure of 120 million CARDINAL . Many people quote a figure of 150 million CARDINAL . Let 's think about it this way . If we actually use 120 million CARDINAL as the statistic for the group who leave the country to work in the city , , at least half CARDINAL of them are um , married before they work in the city . Of course , families of these married people will usually have children . Moreover , they will usually have more than one CARDINAL child in rural areas . So you can imagine .

I believe the left - behind children group is definitely more than 10 or 20 million CARDINAL . It , uh , , in my opinion , should be around 50 million CARDINAL . Of course , we have not conducted exact statistical calculations . I believe the number of this group should be particularly large . According to the study by the task force , at present , the four CARDINAL main types of custody for left - behind children include single - parent custody , skip - generation custody , relative custody , and same - generation custody . Among which , single - parent custody had the highest number , accounting for 79.2 percent PERCENT of the people surveyed . The next one was skip - generation custody , accounting for 16.9 percent PERCENT . While those who lived with relatives or were entrusted to the care of someone else made up 4.1 percent PERCENT and .9 percent of the total number of left - behind children , respectively . According to your study , what do these left - behind children generally do with their daily DATE life if their parents or parent work in the city ? Different types of custody have different impacts on their life . No doubt , , single - parent custody definitely creates less impact compared to the other types .

The impact of single - parent custody is smaller because at least the mother is at home . There is no major problem in the children 's material life . Of course , there are many impacts in other aspects , for instance , peer socialization . The one that creates a huge impact is definitely skip - generation custody . Skip - generation custody means the grandparents look after the children . There is also relative or neighbor custody that asks neighbors or relatives to look after the children , and there is a type called self - custody . These three CARDINAL types create the biggest and the most impact . If we want to discuss this in more detail , let 's say , the skip - generation custody . First ORDINAL , in skip - generation custody , their material life will no doubt be a lot less taken care of when compared to the usual both parents or one CARDINAL parent at home situation . This is indisputable .

This type of family is not as good as the others . We had an example of a child in Shaanxi GPE province . Um , there was a family ! This family had an older brother and a younger sister . Both parents wanted to go to the city to work . The father went first ORDINAL , and later the mother wanted to go , too . What happened to these two CARDINAL children ? The grandparents were unwilling to take care of them because in rural areas , grandparents also have to work in the field ! As a result , , this mother sent , these brother and sister , to martial arts school to study . After they went to the martial arts school for a while , um , their mother was , um , a little worried , so she went to visit them .

She went to visit them . When she saw them , , the girl cried to her and said , " I really do n't want to stay here . I want to go home . " Later , the mother was moved and brought , this girl home and had the grandparents look after her . Um , she still , ai , left him at the martial arts school . Um , um , after the girl returned , the mother continued to work in the city . When she came back one CARDINAL time in between work , she found that the girl 's body was dotted with red marks and red swellings . She then discovered ah , um , the grandparents had not washed her clothes for a very long time . The situation you mentioned , is it common or is it a rather extreme example , because generally , people will think that grandparents will particularly love and care about their grandchildren ? The situation that I just mentioned regarding skip - generation custody is no doubt common .

Why is it so ? You said that grandparents certainly have special love for the children . It is true . It is true that they will go out of their way to pamper the children . However , for the elderly , with the difference in age and time , , their , ways of taking care and loving the children are different . They are influenced by their own habits . For instance , there was a child who was sick . Um , the grandparents asked him to take , a small pill that was made in Shaanxi GPE . They did not even know what it was made of . It was a local method .

Um , after all , they are different from , um , young people in this respect . Instead of sending the child to the hospital as quickly as possible , they are influenced by , some habits in this aspect . , they raised this point themselves . Another important point they mentioned was that they had to take care of the entire family . " Her father and mother are not home , so the entire family falls onto our shoulders , especially when we still have to be responsible for the farm work on the farmland . So , all I can do is to feed her and make sure that she is not cold . " They also had to face such a reality , one that they could not resolve . After all , a family that had so many people in the beginning , , the parents of the children were a very important um , workforce . Now it was down to the two CARDINAL grandparents . No doubt , they could not help .

In the study of left - behind children , many staff found out by surprise that the biological cycle of the farmers who work in the city , and the inculcation and upbringing cycle of their children , have formed two CARDINAL parallel lines that will never meet . Farmers who work in the city are generally a young workforce in their prime , while this is the period in which their children attend primary or junior high school . Originally , they work in the city out of the hope that their children can receive a better education . However , adolescent children need the loving care and guidance of their parents even more . During this period , the absence of both or even one CARDINAL parent will create obstacles to the character development of the children . This pair of unavoidable contradictions has made the problem of left - behind children in rural areas become more obvious . You have seen many kinds of left - behind children . Was there a particular case or a particular child who had left an especially deep impression on you that you still remember now ? , um , there was a child in Ningxia GPE whose name was Yao Zhengang PERSON .

This child , um , did not do exceptionally well in school . What impressed me the most about him was that he really missed his parents . He felt particularly lonely and especially wanted his father to come back . He said that he was sick one time . His father worked in Guyuan PERSON , about 40 to 50 kilometers away from home . After his father learned that he was very sick , he ran back to the village right away . After he arrived at the village , he did not say anything , but to put him on his back and carry him to the town to see a doctor . He just carried him like that without saying a word . When the doctor in the town took a look and told him that they were unable to cure the sickness , he carried the child to the county . When Yao Zhengang PERSON told us what happened , he said , " My father had never bought me so many tasty foods before .

On that day , he bought me a lot of tasty food while we were in the county , but he did not eat any himself . " I thought about this at that time . After I heard this incident , I particularly understood what was in the mind of Yao Zhengang 's PERSON father . He might have felt especially guilty toward his child . What he felt was that " I go out to work and leave my child home . " He said that his child had also said , " When he was at home , he always encouraged me . " He would say , " No problem . You work hard and get a better grade next time , " when I had low grades . If he could receive many , such encouragements , he would not have um , um , disliked school sometimes . He does not want to go to school now . However , in his example , I could imagine what went through his father 's mind at that time .

I think that he felt very guilty toward his child . Therefore , I can feel that um , um , parents who work in the city also have no alternative . They are forced into making such decisions . Um , there was also this child . There was a child , a girl in Xixiang GPE county , Shaanxi GPE province . Um , when I asked , " What do you think are the changes that your parents working in the city have caused you ? " She did not answer . She went home to get a small box . There was a small finger inside the box . This was a very terrifying incident . What was the small finger all about ?

What happened was that when her um , parents left to work in the city , her grandparents looked after her . They had a cellar at home and inside was a hay cutter for cutting hay . When she went downstairs to play by herself , an accident happened . Her grandparents said , " We ca n't help . We ca n't keep an eye on her all the time . " , before they went to work in the city , they could watch her and forbade her to go down to the cellar . He had told her not to do that before . However , I said that sometimes it is very difficult to ask children to have self control . That was why she turned this way .

-LSB- -RSB- This is Ruangang GPE village , Bocang GPE town , Yi county GPE , Hebei GPE province . Among the 303 CARDINAL households in the village , one - third CARDINAL of the families have people who work in the city . More than half CARDINAL of the children in the village are left - behind children . Most of the children 's parents are in the southern part of the country . Many people want to save some travel expenses and earn some more money , so it is very common for them not to return home for a year or DATE two CARDINAL . Life is so vast . Life is an ocean wherever life exists . It has been six years DATE since 14 - year - old DATE Jiang Beiwen PERSON was sent by his parents to live with his maternal grandfather in Ruangang GPE village . His parents rely on selling rice in Guangzhou GPE to support their child 's education .

They live a very hard life . Little Beiwen PERSON has not seen them once in the past six years DATE . Oh , I see so many children here who can turn for comfort in their parents ' arms ! Ah , I envy them . So , I also , want to be able to turn to comfort in my parents ' arms . I was at school the time I missed my mother the most . Uh huh . We had a market ! Oh , every day , there were parents who bought things for their oh , sons and daughters . I also wish that my parents could buy me things .

I envied them very much . That was when I missed my mother the most . This is Jiang Beiwen 's PERSON favorite photo . It was taken with his father six years ago DATE , before he sent him to live with his maternal grandfather . He was only eight years old at that time . The only connection that little Beiwen PERSON has with his parents now is to talk on the phone with them once a week . In his opinion , affection among family members is something unreachable . How often can your mother call you ? Uh , once a week ! What do you talk about ?

I will talk about my studies and life . My schoolwork was not quite good when I first ORDINAL came ! My mother scolded me in the beginning when my schoolwork was poor . She said that I was losing honor for not doing well at school ! Then I cried and after that , my mother cried , too . Since they move from place to place in the city to work all year round , parents of left - behind children have little communication with their children . While for temporary custodians , they are only limited to providing superficial care , such as making sure the children have food and stay warm , but can not fulfill the responsibility of educating the children . The survey found that 36.7 percent PERCENT of the children had never been to their parents ' workplace . 8.2 percent PERCENT of the parents almost never contacted their children . 21.4 percent PERCENT of the parents contacted their children less than once a month .

Since their parents are absent , how can these children communicate and exchange with their parents ? Our study found that um , um , the principal means of contact between the left - behind children and their parents was through the telephone . However , contrary to our belief that they could talk on the phone for a long time when they called , approximately 50 percent PERCENT of the left - behind children we surveyed talked on the phone with their parents for three minutes or TIME so . What could they talk about in three minutes ? I think it is hard to say anything meaningful in three minutes TIME . Of course , we also studied what these children talked to their parents about in these three - minute telephone conversations . What did the parents who worked in the city talk about with their children ? What touched us very deeply was that 70 percent PERCENT of the content of the children 's conversations with their parents was to ask about their safety and not other things , such as how much they had earned . As for the content of the parents ' conversations with their children , first ORDINAL , it was school . Whether they were good and how their schoolwork was .

Second , it was whether they obeyed their custodians and what they ate and things like that . Uh , as for safety matters , in fact , they could not have any emotional exchange . We know that sometimes when we talk on the phone , even a pause is a need for emotional exchange . However , the parents may not have realized this . For instance , the child has stopped talking . He stops talking because he needs to pause to consider how to say what is in his mind . The parents may not have realized this point , so they hang up the phone immediately . Of course , for three minutes TIME , why was it only for three minutes ? In many cases , it was because they worried about the charge . , many left - behind children told us that they especially wanted to call their parents on the phone .

However , um , they considered that um , one CARDINAL thing , sometimes they did not have a telephone at home . It was very difficult for children to borrow the phone from their neighbors . Second ORDINAL , um , they considered that they needed money to make a phone call . Some children told me , " I secretly called my parents when my custodians were not home . " The children have a great need for this type of telephone exchange . Do the left - behind children understand why their parents work in the city ? Um , um , we conducted a survey on this question . We were very surprised to find that 40 percent of the left - behind children had no idea what jobs their parents held away from home . How could that be possible ?

How could that be possible ? We interviewed some left - behind children , their custodians , and the people who work in the city . Why would n't the children know what they did ? First , we can tell from the content of the three CARDINAL - minute telephone conversations we mentioned earlier that children are particularly concerned about the safety of the parents who work in the city . However , a lot of the work that the parents engaged in is dangerous work , including coalmines , construction , and some others , many of them are dangerous jobs . Thus , I believe the parents of these left - behind children also choose not to take the initiative and tell them the nature of their job . Why do they do that ? It is because they are afraid that their children will worry . Second ORDINAL , , parents , especially fathers , who work in the city have a particularly lofty image in the children 's mind . Maybe they do not want their children to know about the nature of their job or tell them what they do .

They , do not want to destroy the lofty image of themselves in the child 's mind . At noon TIME , the maternal grandmother and maternal grandfather went to work in the field and did not come home . Jiang Beiwen PERSON has to make lunch for himself . This happens to him very often . He could look after himself since he was nine CARDINAL . What work are you going to do today DATE , other than cooking ? Uh , I will do the dishes after I finish eating . If it is Sunday DATE when I am free , I will , also do some farm work . What kind of work ? Uh , I will hoe the field , uh , when we are in a hurry to till the land for growing crops , I will help do some work .

Do you still remember your mother 's cooking ? Uh huh , I do . It was especially tasty . Now , the most I want to know is , my parents ' health . Why do you want to know about that ? It is because I care about my parents very much . I think about their work because I know that they work in the city because of me , so I care about them a lot . They will be worn out from working in the city , working in the city to make money . I believe it is also because of me , so I care about their health a lot . Because of you , why is it because of you ?

Because if they did n't have me , I think they uh , would be a lot more , relaxed when they worked . Then , are these children willing to live with their parents ? Or go to the city with them ? In regard to this , first ORDINAL , , children all want their parents to come back to live with them . However , 51 percent PERCENT of the children we surveyed were unwilling to go to the city with their parents , go to the city , to live in the city . However , they all wanted their parents to come back , but half CARDINAL of the children did not want to go to the city . We also asked them why they did not want to go to the city . This was also very surprising to us . They said that the city is another world and they were especially worried . They were afraid that once they go to the city , they will not be able to assimilate into the schools and things like that .

Second , they realized that it is already a very difficult task for their parents to work in the city . Their parents have to send money home , among other things . If they go live with them , they will add more burdens to their parents . If we are in the city every day , live in the city every day , we may know that oh , city life is like this . As for children from rural areas and people from rural areas who work in the city , they are not familiar with this world and they have a type of fear . As for parents , are they more willing to bring their children with them or leave them at home ? I believe when parents make this decision , their main consideration is not willing or unwilling . All parents , I can say the majority of the parents , definitely want to live with their children . However , with the reality that they have to face , I believe that they can not solve this problem . Of course , we know what the reality is .

First , their families are rather poor to begin with . Only the lower - middle class will leave the rural areas and work in the city . They have to make money to support the family . They will need a huge sum of money in order to bring their children to the city . Nonetheless , I believe there are also many other reasons . They also have to consider whether their children can go to school in the city . They have to find a place to live . All these are problems that they need to resolve . The problems they face are too many . If the children go to the city , the expenses will be very high .

Since circumstances do not permit , they can not bring their children with them , according to their will or their psychological need . Many parents are unable to bring their children with them . What would you tell your parents if you could see them now ? I want to tell them that I miss them very much . Judging from the surface , is there any obvious difference between the character of these left - behind children and non-left - behind children ? It is hard to tell from the surface . Why is it so ? For these children , it depends on how long their parents have been working in the city . For example , some have just gone for a year DATE , while others have gone for 10 years DATE already .

In this case , um , generally speaking , uh , we did not conduct any psychological testing or comparison in this psychological aspect . However , many schools and custodians reported that many left - behind children had become very withdrawn . They had very strange um , um , temperaments . They did not like to speak . There was , a child who was in the first year of junior high school . Um , um , he told us himself that he particularly , um , um , misses his father . He was very good at school . However , one CARDINAL time we visited him , his um , family told us that he was second ORDINAL in his class in his examination . After that , he became extremely , extremely , annoyed . Um , um , um , his language and other things became very strange .

Um , um , we also asked his um , um , grandparents who had custody of him . They said that when his father was home , he would always encourage him and um , exchange with him . Um , of course , it was not necessarily because his parents worked in the city . However , for some left - behind children , their parents working in the city has caused some psychological abnormalities and unusual development . This situation indeed exists . After all , these are families whose love is inadequate and incomplete . I believe love is especially important . Children need love from the time they are small . We have to understand our Chinese NORP saying , " The child is father to the man . " What it says is that the character that children form at a very young age will affect their entire life .

Only children who are loved and who realize the importance of love since they are young will be able to love other people in the future . This is the case . Therefore , for this type , um , um , um , this group of left - behind children , psychologically , they do not have family love . Um , , if the parents work in the city , these children perhaps will not receive timely attention when they encounter many difficulties at home . Perhaps the neighbors around are all facing different realities and can not offer them timely love . Under this situation , I believe , I am not sure , um , I am unwilling to imagine what mentality and character these children will develop when they grow up . Will they believe there is love in society or not ? Will they think that love is important in society or not , because they have never experienced it . They have never completely experienced it . Thus , if such a large group in society does not realize that love should be , um , given or received in society , I think this is , something that I do not want to imagine .

Despite the guarantee in food , clothing , and school that left - behind children get because their parents work in the city to make money , they do not have the psychological and physiological satisfaction that they require . According to the survey , more than half CARDINAL of the left - behind children were dissatisfied with their current life . 58 percent PERCENT of the left - behind children believed that they were unhappy . Are the parents worried about leaving their children at home by themselves ? Do they understand the living conditions of their children at home ? They thought that this was a reality that they could not um , um , face . They were condemned to this reality . No doubt , I think some , um , parents have not had such profound consideration . Why do n't they ? I believe people are all the same .

If they face such an urgent need for a livelihood , their first ORDINAL consideration will be the need for a livelihood . They can not consider the deeper issue of children 's safety and psychology when their livelihood has not been solved , satisfied , and guaranteed . For example , there were two CARDINAL sisters who lived in a cave dwelling in Shaanxi GPE province . Many people whom we interviewed lived in cave dwellings . Once there was a flood . , these sisters stayed in the cave dwelling to look after the home ! This happened in the rural area . These two CARDINAL children were looking after the home . Their uncle saved them when the flood was almost past their bellies . Their father called later to see if they were fine .

The family told him that they were fine . He did not come back after that . He did not come back to check if everything was fine . I believe the reason he did not return was that he would ponder whether he should return or not . Iraq GPE in the shadows /. As Iraqis NORP vote on a new constitution have the media dropped the ball on this long and bloody war /? Has Iraq GPE been overshadowed by Katrina PERSON and Tom DeLay PERSON and Harriet Meyers PERSON and the Pakistan GPE quake /? A conversation with columnist Tom Friedman PERSON /. Was Sixty Minutes unfair to Bill Clinton PERSON in airing Louis Freeh 's PERSON charges against him /?

Former Clinton PERSON lawyer Lanny Davis PERSON in our new Talk Back to the Media WORK_OF_ART segment /. Plus that bogus subway terror alert /. Why did n't television slam on the brakes /? Welcome to Reliable Sources /. I 'm Howard Kurtz PERSON /. You 're joining us at our new time ten AM eastern seven CARDINAL pacific for a full hour TIME of media analysis every week DATE /. We have some new segments we 'll be adding in the coming week DATE /. so stay tuned /. I had a wide ranging sitdown with Pulitzer Prize PERSON winner Tom Friedman PERSON /.

but first Judy Miller PERSON and the New York Times ORG finally go public on the front page this morning TIME with their nearly six thousand word account of the CIA ORG leak investigation /. In a separate first ORDINAL person account Miller PERSON confirmed that she told the grand jury that Scooter Libby Dick PERSON Cheney PERSON 's top aide discussed with her as many as three CARDINAL times the role of Valerie Plame PERSON as a CIA ORG employee /. This says the Bush PERSON administration was angry about her husband Joe Wilson 's PERSON role in criticizing President Bush PERSON on whether Saddam Hussein PERSON had weapons of mass destruction /. The conclusion by a team of Times ORG reporters /. The Times ORG incurred millions of dollars MONEY in legal fees in Miss Miller PERSON 's case /. It limited its own ability to cover aspects of one CARDINAL of the biggest scandals of the day DATE /. Even as the paper asked for the public 's support it was unable to answer its questions /. Among the journalistic revelations, Miller PERSON released from jail last month DATE says she pushed for a story on the outing of Valerie Plame PERSON back in two thousand three DATE /. She never wrote one /. but her former boss says no way /.

that never happened /. And the Times was so conflicted in covering the controversy the editors killed the story about Libby PERSON and pulled their punches in other ways /. And joining us now in Los Angeles GPE Arianna Huffington the syndicated columnist and founder of the blog huffington post dot com /. in Minneapolis GPE Lucy Dalglish PERSON executive director of the Reporters ' Committee for Freedom of the Press ORG /. and here in Washington GPE Frank Sesno PERSON professor of public policy and communication at George Mason University ORG and a CNN ORG special correspondant /. Frank Sesno PERSON has the New York Times ORG belatedly to be sure fought and finally made an honest accounting of its role of Judy Miller 's PERSON role and the tensions that she created in the newsroom /? Well an honest accounting /. yeah maybe /. but not a full accounting /.

You know and if the whole bottom line of this mess is that the public has the right to know and that that 's what this is all about the public still does n't know a lot of things /. There 's still a lot of questions here /. Why was that waiver that Miller PERSON was apparently granted by uh Scooter Libby PERSON a year ago DATE /- Why did it wait until she sat in jail for all that time before she actually took up on it /? you know she 's referred to in the Times ' own account as Miss Run Amuck PERSON /. She was pulled off of certain stories on Iraq GPE 's weapons of mass destruction /. What are her motives and bottom lines to the secrecy of this whole thing /? There 's a lot we still do n't know /. Miss Run Amuck PERSON was a name she gave herself quite proudly apparently /. Arianna Huffington PERSON the Times piece a lengthy piece acknowledges that Judy Miller PERSON was a controversial figure in the newsroom whose own WMD reporting was wrong and that while she claims to have pushed for this uh story on Valerie Plame PERSON two years ago DATE Jill Abrahamson PERSON now the paper 's managing editor says No way /.

That did n't happen /. In other words there 's a dispute in the accounts /. Pretty candid stuff for a newspaper to publish about itself would n't you say /? Well as Frank PERSON said there are many unanswered questions /. And there are many very devastating eh comments and conclusions about Judy Miller PERSON as a journalist /. I do n't think the Times ORG had any choice though Howie PERSON . Because remember as a press reporter back on July twenty - seventh DATE the turmoil in the newsroom has been going on for months DATE about Judy Miller PERSON and the way the paper has decided to cover the story and the way they decided to present her as a martyr for the first ORDINAL amendment /. And the main unanswered question here is why did Arthur Sulzberger PERSON the newspaper 's publisher allow Judy Miller PERSON to hijack the reporting of that story and the editorial policy on that story /. And the similarities for the Jayson Blair PERSON case /. Remember after the Jayson Blair PERSON scandal broke we had a seven thousand word story that did not give a full account of what happened . Especially about why is a major institution like the Times ignoring so many red flags /. Alright /.

In the story one CARDINAL of things that we learn is that Bill Keller PERSON took Judy Miller PERSON off her WMD beat as one of his first ORDINAL personnel decisions when he took eh the reins as editor /. Alright /. Well uh I agree there are some unanswered questions /. but I 'm willing to give the Times a little more credit than you for at least attempting to answer uh many of the questions /. And Lucy Dalglish PERSON here 's the thing that jumped out at me in the story /. Judy Miller PERSON acknowledges that at Louis Libby 's PERSON request this is the Dick Cheney PERSON aide she agreed to refer to him and in stories not as a senior administration official but as a former Hill PERSON aide because he had once worked on Capitol Hill LOC /. Do you have a problem with that sort of thing /? I thought that was a little bit misleading /. And I thought it was odd /. I mean her justification was that well he had been a former Hill PERSON staffer /.

Um but that was a strange request /. and I think the agreement was strange /. I 'll agree with you on that /. Frank Sesno PERSON the Times was so hamstrung by its passionate embrace of this reporter who after all was facing jail did go to jail /. One CARDINAL can understand the emotions uh that were unleashed here /. and yet the editors discouraged stories on the CIA ORG leak investigation and one CARDINAL time killed a piece written by a reporter about Scooter Libby PERSON /. Was that an abdication of journalistic responsibility /? Maybe yeah maybe /. I mean what it really shows Howie PERSON I think is just how difficult it is for news organizations to report on themselves /.

You know news organizations demand total transparency whether you 're General Motors ORG or United States GPE government /. We want access /. We want explanation /. We want full disclosure /. But it 's very difficult for them to do it themselves /. In this case and the Times ORG makes it very plain in their story today they really suffered /. They were behind on virtually every major aspect of the story /. Even when she went to jail /? Even when she went to jail and w- /. When she won release from jail /.

Yeah at the point that she came out /. They did n't say that you know until she walked out /. And the question and this is a very serious question it 's not answered in the article /. Were editorial higher - ups and were the corporate lawyers at the New York Times ORG in some way leaning on suppressing and distorting the coverage from the news uh section /? Arianna Huffington PERSON uh in this lengthy piece this morning TIME uh uh Judy Miller PERSON is quoted excuse me as saying that there was another source beside Scooter Libby PERSON that she dealt with on the Valerie Plame PERSON situation /. She does n't recall who that source was looking at her notes and seeing the uh notation Valerie Flame PERSON /. She got the name wrong /. Do you buy this notion that she does n't recall who this other source was /? No of course not Howie PERSON /. In fact I think this is the major unanswered question /.

We do n't know who eh her source was when it comes to revealing the identity of Valerie Plame PERSON /. And to say that she does not recall is really as convincing as having Woodward PERSON and Bernstein saying that they do not recall who Deep Throat PERSON was /. After all these notes were just a few weeks old DATE when um the Valerie Plame Bob Novak PERSON column appeared and when the whole Washington GPE and the whole journalistic community was talking about it /. You know I do n't /- Incidentally there was some questions uh that Judy Miller PERSON would not answer to her colleagues /. and she would n't share her notes with them although they 've been turned over to the special prosecutor /. Lucy Dalglish PERSON the big news for me was Miller PERSON recounting what her lawyer Floyd Abrams PERSON had said to her about a conversation that he had with Joe Tate PERSON who was Scooter Libby 's PERSON lawyer /. Uh says um Floyd Abrams PERSON according to Miller ORG 's account when I would n't give him Tate PERSON an assurance that you would exonerate Libby PERSON he said do n't go there /. Now Tate PERSON by the way tells the Times that that account is false and outrageous /.

Does this help justify eh Judy Miller 's PERSON otherwise mysterious decision to go to jail and not accept the waiver of confidentiality that Scooter Libby PERSON offered and sit in jail for eighty - five days / DATE ? N- you n- /. you know I 've been talking to Judy PERSON off and on about this case for the last year DATE /. This was a very difficult decision /. and you know what this all comes down to is you keep your promises when you make a promise to a confidential source /. You 'll recall six or eight months ago DATE Howie PERSON I was on the show and we were talking about you know did Russert PERSON and Kessler PERSON and all the rest of those guys did they break some trust by agreeing to testify and observing the waiver /? What I think this situation and the turmoil that is obviously going on at the Times right now points out is the fact that we have a major problem in this country /. it 's that reporters believe they need to keep their promises to their sources /. Reporters will try to do whatever they can as long as the law allows them to protect those sources /. Right /.

But these days um with the state of our law the fact that we do not have a federal shield law we have prosecutors and civil litigants going in there and interfering with the day to day DATE operation of our newsrooms /. and we just can tolerate this /. And we 're trying to /- I think Lucy PERSON 's on to something here if I can just say Howie PERSON /. And I think this is very important because this is an ugly case /. And even people close to Judith Miller PERSON say this is not the one you 'd really like to go to the mat on /. You 'd love to have a clear whistle blower case /. You 'd love to have a Pentagon FAC papers case /. You 'd love to have something where the well - being and the sanctity of the Republic GPE you know hangs in the balance /. She did n't even report on this /.

But it does point out a very serious issue /. And that is the whole notion of the use of and abuse of confidential sources the protections that reporters do or do n't have and the propensity of uh the United States GPE government to have more secrecy not less /. We 've got to figure this out /. Well just to clarify uh she did ultimately uh testify about her confidential source /. The whole issue was how voluntary was the waiver of her promise to Scooter Libby PERSON offered and why was she able to accept after being in jail as opposed to before being in jail /. Well exactly /. and you know what Howie PERSON /. /. it 's really time for Lucy PERSON and other Judy Miller PERSON defenders to update her talking points because what Lucy PERSON just said just simply does not wash /. The truth is that as Howie PERSON said she did testify /. The truth is that it 's very clear from the stories today DATE that she could 've asked uh Scooter Libby PERSON to call her so that she could hear the timber of his voice earlier /.

All of that could have happened /. It did not happen because clearly Judy Miller PERSON is protecting another source that she still has not revealed to the American NORP public /. And the New York Times ORG is /. Lucy PERSON /. /. Let me get a response from Lucy Dalglish PERSON /. I think it 's very obvious from what Judy PERSON wrote today she is protecting somebody else /. And one CARDINAL of the reasons that this negotiation took so long is that not only was she negotiating what she was going to say about Scooter Libby PERSON but you got to keep in mind I 'm a lawyer there were lawyers involved in this /. They had to negotiate with Patrick Fitzgerald PERSON what he would not talk about /. They also had to negotiate whether or not there would be any type of um uh uh obstruction charges connected with contacting /.

Once you invoke the wrath or the extreme interest of a federal prosecutor you have to be very very careful /. You do n't mess with the Feds ORG /. It 's very clear in her story that she decided finally to testify because she got tired of jail because she was threatened with criminal contempt charges because she wanted to go out and now she 's saying admitting finally write a book /. All these things are there in black and white /. and to continue to portray her as a martyr is not going to work /. And on that point Arianna on that point she says sh- /- Excuse me /. Judy Miller PERSON says she 's taking some time off from the paper /. She wants to write a book /. She would n't share her notes with her colleagues who were writing the story /.

Do you think she 'll ever come back /? You think she 's saving it for the book /? Well it 's very clear that she would not be welcome in the newsroom /. And it 's very clear eh as I reported again that when Bill Keller PERSON took her off her WMD beat they were all hoping she would resign /. Instead she threw a fit /. but she stayed on /. This is not a journalism one CARDINAL oh one course the way she handled both the WMD reporting and Plame Gate PERSON /. Frank Sesno PERSON please comment /. Jump in /. And Howie PERSON I 'll tell you what /.

This is a gigantic shot across the bow of every manager in the news business and every editor and every executive producer anywhere because you got to have some uh control some connection with your correspondants and your reporters /. You got to know who they 're talking to at some level anyway because you know what /? It 's about trust with the public /. and it 's about you know ending up in jail or in court /. their story says that Bill Keller PERSON and Arthur Sulzberger PERSON did not press Judy Miller PERSON about her conversations with Libby PERSON or ask to see her notes while they were defending her /. Ask to see her /. And by the way we invited the New York Times ORG to have an editor appear on this program /. The paper declined /. When we come back media speculation run amuck over possible indictments at sixteen hundred CARDINAL Pennsylvania GPE and the President 's scripted session with troops in Iraq GPE /.

Stay with us /. Welcome back to Reliable Sources /. As the CIA ORG leak investigation continued this week DATE media folks did plenty of speculating with no evidence about the possible indictment of a certain top White House ORG official who testified before the grand jury for the fourth ORDINAL time on Friday DATE /. Karl Rove PERSON his closest aide the number two CARDINAL man in the White House ORG the man that has been called Bush PERSON 's brain /. If he 's indicted and has to go it undermines the key source of this President 's public support his character /. If Rove PERSON gets indicted that could bring down the Bush PERSON administration I think /. My understanding from talking to somebody quite close to this investigation is that they think there are going to be indictments /. and possibly Karl Rove PERSON could be among them /. Lucy Dalglish PERSON if Karl Rove PERSON is indicted , if Karl Rove PERSON is indicted , what if he 's not indicted /? Is n't this the worst kind of journalistic speculation /?

Yeah /. You know I think it 's always dangerous to speculate whether or not you 're really besmirching someone 's reputation . Although I 'm not sure you can do that with Karl Rove PERSON /. But it uh is very very you know eh irre- /- I would prefer that people keep an eye on you know watching him testify and going in and out of the courthouse /. But uh will it bring down the administration /? I do n't know /. Ah eh I do n't know /. Well nobody knows /. That 's the point /. Arianna Huffington PERSON I used to cover the justice department /.

Not everybody who 's under investigation winds up getting indicted /. Ah but you certainly and you 're uh on a blog so maybe it 's a different standard have speculated about Rove PERSON 's fate as well /. Well not just Rove PERSON though /. what we have speculated is that it might be a much more tangled web that Fitzgerald PERSON is after the whole Iraq GPE White House ORG group the group that uh in Cheney PERSON 's office with Libby PERSON and Rove PERSON and Mary Matalin PERSON and Condoleezza Rice PERSON and a lot of administration officials basically sold um a war to the American NORP public based on lies /. I mean that is really the web /. But it seems and we find out today also from uh um the reporting on the Miller PERSON story , that uh Fitzgerald PERSON is after Cheney PERSON even in some of the questioning eh of Miller PERSON /. I think those were fairly routine questions about /. you have Judy Miller PERSON there /. you ask about Cheney PERSON /. /. He was being thorough /.

I think we 're overthinking this whole thing /. Karl Rove PERSON and this speculation business you know /. Frank Sesno PERSON /. Pat Fitzgerald PERSON /. It 's very easy to sit here and say oh we should never speculate in journalism /. It 's irresponsible journalism /. It 's really how you speculate not that you speculate /. The fact of the matter is that Karl Rove PERSON has been to the grand jury four CARDINAL times /. The fact of the matter is that there are lots of people in Washington GPE and believe me they 're not all journalists who are speculating what if the guy gets indicted /. It would be irresponsible I think for the media not to reflect what the discussion is here in town /.

And there are plenty of Republicans NORP mostly Republicans NORP who are worried about this /. Alright I want to turn now to uh President Bush PERSON 's uh meeting uh uh photo op some called it with US GPE troops in Iraq GPE whether it was staged how shocking that would be /. Let 's take a look at the actual footage /. And in your interactions with the Iraqi NORP civilians in Tikrit Saddam 's PERSON hometown how are they reacting to this political process /? Sir in the north central area of Iraq GPE voter registration has increased seventeen percent PERCENT /. Can you give us a sense for the reception of the people there in Tikrit /? Sir in north central Iraq GPE voter regis- /- Are you stunned /? Are you stunned /? Shocked PERSON /.

I ca n't believe it /. they rehearsed it /. They rehearsed it /. They rehearsed it /. Yeah you know something /? uh I remember a long time ago Michael Deaver PERSON the ultimate image meister for Ronald Reagan PERSON said my job is to light the President well and for everything I do to put the President in a good light /. Now look first ORDINAL of all this is uncomfortable to see /. and what the problem this now creates for the White House ORG is {is} it plays into the credibility issue that the President has that everything now is becoming a photo op and a rehearsed event in order to rescue what are tumbling numbers on his performance on public support of Iraq GPE the whole bit /. But the fact that anybody would think that you would do something like this a remote /. I mean anybody in television will tell you that 's complicated business /.

You have satellite delay /. You have a half a dozen CARDINAL people sitting there /. Who 's going to speak when /. You do n't want awkward silences /. You 're going to walk through it /. so that it happened does n't surprise me /. That it hurts the President yeah that 's inevitable too /. Arianna Huffington PERSON does the staging here surprise you at all /? Well it 's not the question of surpising me Howie PERSON /. It 's the fact that we are talking about war /.

This is not just any photo opportunity /. Of course that 's part and parcel of the presidency /. But we 're talking about a war in which almost two thousand CARDINAL young Americans NORP have died /. And we are also using soldiers as props /. Yes it is shocking /. and I think Keith Olbermann PERSON did a phenomenal job at exposing this on MSNBC ORG /. Alright /. And I think more and more journalists are actually taking a hard look at what this administration is doing /. And we 'll have to leave it there /. Last word /.

Arianna Huffington Lucy Dalglish PERSON in Minneapolis GPE Frank Sesno PERSON thanks so very much for joining us /. Coming up , we launch our new segment Talk Back to the Media WORK_OF_ART /. President Clinton PERSON 's former lawyer Lanny Davis PERSON takes on Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART and ex-FBI director Louis Freeh PERSON /. And still to come New York Times ORG columnist Tom Friedman PERSON /. Welcome back /. In our new Talk Back to the Media WORK_OF_ART segment someone who believes he or she 's been treated unfairly by the press gets the chance to sound off and give their side of the controversy /. Last Sunday DATE Mike Wallace PERSON sat down with Louis Freeh PERSON who 's peddling a memoir on Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART /. and the former FBI ORG director unloaded on the President who appointed him Bill Clinton PERSON /. Among his criticisms the former president 's handling of the nineteen ninety - six Khobar Towers terrorist bombing that killed nineteen US GPE marines in Saudi Arabia GPE /.

I was very disappointed that the political leadership of the United States GPE uh would tell the families of these nineteen heroes that we were going to leave no stone unturned and find the people who killed them /. to give that order to the director because that 's the order that I got and then to do nothing to assist and facilitate that investigation in fact to undermine it /. The Clinton PERSON people were furious at the way Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART hailed the segment /. and here to talk back is former Clinton White House ORG attorney Lanny Davis PERSON /. Welcome /. Let 's deal with the substance first ORDINAL /. Louis Freeh PERSON says that when Clinton PERSON met with Crown Prince Abdullah PERSON in nineteen ninety - eight DATE , he did n't press for FBI ORG access to suspects in the Khobar Towers bombing and he hit up the prince for a contribution to his presidential library /. Well not only is that false and President Clinton PERSON has said so but everybody who attended the meeting not including Louis Freeh PERSON says it 's false /. And my problem with Sixty Minutes is that they never called anybody at the meeting /. Until Friday DATE afternoon TIME we did n't even know the charge was being made /.

And even then they were unwilling to put somebody on the air to contradict Mister Freeh PERSON /. Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART says Bill Clinton PERSON was offered a chance to come on and give his rebuttal /. What 's wrong with that /? Well first ORDINAL of all it 's absolutely amazing that Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART thinks it 's okay to air a false and malicious statement /. This is a terrible charge that an FBI ORG investigation was thwarted because President Clinton PERSON wanted to receive money for his library /. The charge was false /. and the only way that that can be countered is a former president of the United States GPE /? What about anybody at the meeting who was willing to be on /? What about them doing reporting themselves before they air a false and demonstrably false charge /? That 's my problem /.

What about Sandy Berger PERSON the former national security advisor under President Clinton PERSON /? He was at the meeting /. He was in the room /. Did you offer him for an on - camera interview /? Well on Friday DATE afternoon TIME /. You were n't there /. I was not there /. You 're good on television /. but you were n't there /. uh I talked to Sandy Berger PERSON /.

We issued a statement from Mister Berger PERSON /. but this was Friday DATE afternoon when we first ORDINAL learned about it with Sunday DATE broadcast /. Why did n't Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART invite Mister Berger PERSON or other people at the meeting before Friday DATE afternoon /? Why did it take us to get Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART to do basic reporting to verify facts /? It 's not enough to have Louis Freeh PERSON say something is so based on an anonymous source /. That 's poor journalism /. On that point let me read a statement from a Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART spokesman /. And this involves uh their saying that they contacted Clinton PERSON 's office back in August DATE with a detailed list of charges and then quote in subsequent phone calls the President 's people said he did not want to be interviewed /. They gave no +substantive response to any of the allegations until Lanny Davis PERSON launched his PR campaign on the Thursday DATE before the broadcast and offered himself as the person from the camp who would merely disparage and attack Freeh rather than deal with his allegations /.

Denials from President Clinton PERSON and Sandy Berger PERSON that did deal with Freeh 's allegations were included in the Sixty Minutes report /. Well first ORDINAL of all it 's false to say that I was asking to disparage Freeh /. I was asking to talk about facts that Freeh was saying that were not true /. You do n't mind disparaging Freeh /. my observation /. no in fact I disparage any man who as FBI ORG director has a personal pique rather than doing his job /. That 's disparaging /. Secondly ORDINAL it is absolutely a misrepresentation that they told us before just the week before /. When Mister Carson PERSON the representative spoke to Mister Wallace PERSON Mister Wallace PERSON agreed that they had never verified what Mister uh Freeh had said /. They never talked to Mister Freeh PERSON /.

and in fact it was n't until that Friday DATE that we learned the substance of Mister Freeh PERSON 's charges /. So Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART I think has just said something that is false /. When did the Clinton PERSON team find out that Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART was going to report that Louis Freeh PERSON with his new book was going to have a specific allegation about Clinton PERSON 's handling of the Khobar Towers investigation and the business about the presidential library solicitation /. When somebody named Howard Kurtz PERSON wrote a story in the Washington Post ORG on Friday DATE morning is the first ORDINAL time that the Clinton PERSON forces learned about that false and demonstrably false charge that good reporting by calling people who were at the meeting could have done would have verified that Mister Freeh PERSON made a false charge /. And even since that interview Mister Freeh PERSON has backed off and has not told people who his source is /. and he has n't even insisted that it was true /. He just said somebody told him it was true /. Hold on /. Sixty Minutes WORK_OF_ART spokesman Kevin Tedesco PERSON said in the statement I just referred to that the Clinton PERSON office was contacted in August DATE with a detailed list of charges /. That 's false /.

Are you saying that 's false /? They were never told /. /. or at least I 'm now basing this on what Mister Carson PERSON has told me /. Jay Carson PERSON is the spokesman for former president Bill Clinton PERSON /. Jay Carson PERSON is the spokesperson for President Clinton PERSON was not informed about the specific charge about the Khobar Towers which happens to be not true /. President Clinton PERSON at that uh meeting did press the uh Crown Prince to cooperate with the FBI ORG /. so what Mister Freeh PERSON said was false /. That was not understood by the Clinton PERSON people until it was read in the Washington Post in the story that you wrote because Sixty Minutes put a press release out /. Uh now look Lanny NORP Davis Sixty PERSON Minutes gave Bill Clinton PERSON one hour TIME last year DATE to push his own ten million dollar autobiography /. He criticized people /.

He criticized Ken Starr PERSON /. They did n't have Ken Starr PERSON on to rebut /. Now the former director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation ORG uh who ca n't stand Clinton PERSON clearly writes a book gets one CARDINAL segment for his book /. and you cry foul /. Nobody was complaining about when Bill Clinton PERSON was getting all this airtime on CBS ORG /. Look /. Look this is a program about good journalism /. Let 's ask a Sixty Minutes uh journalist to say do you have an obligation to verify a charge made by the former FBI ORG director as whether it 's true or not /. Is it good enough to air it just because he says it /. or should you do reporting /?

Good reporters would hear that charge and say that is an extremely serious charge to be levelled against former president Clinton PERSON /. Let 's see whether it 's true and start making phone calls /. They did not do that /. That 's a fact /. Alright Lanny Davis PERSON thanks very much for coming on to Talk Back to the Media this morning TIME /. We appreciate it /. Ahead in the second half of Reliable Sources New York Times columnist Tom Friedman PERSON on whether the media are suffering from Iraq GPE fatigue /. Plus that heavily hyped subway threat that was n't /.

After an update on the hour 's top stories from Atlanta GPE /. Hello I 'm at the CNN ORG center in Atlanta GPE /. Now in the news /. Earthquake relief flights have resumed in Pakistan GPE /. That 's after torrential rain stopped flights for hours TIME there /. And a Pakistani NORP helicopter crashed killing six CARDINAL soldiers /. A magnitude seven CARDINAL point six CARDINAL earthquake struck last weekend DATE as you recall /. Pakistan GPE 's prime minister says it killed at least thirty - eight thousand people and left about two and a half million homeless /. Toledo GPE Ohio GPE is quiet this morning TIME after a planned march by a self - styled nazi group sparked a riot yesterday DATE /. The Associated Press ORG says police arrested at least sixty - five CARDINAL people /.

The march never got started /. but hundreds CARDINAL of counter-demonstrators showed up and battled police on and off for more than three hours DATE /. Police say the protestors vandalized vehicles and buildings setting at least one structure on fire /. Look at this /. a semi-truck and a bus carrying high school band members collided overnight on interstate ninety - four CARDINAL and in Wisconsin GPE /. The Associated Press ORG quotes the Wisconsin GPE state patrol as saying at least five CARDINAL people were killed /. The students were from Chippewa Falls Wisconsin ORG /. They were returning from a band competition at the University of Wisconsin ORG in Whitewater GPE /. Those are the headlines this morning TIME /. I 'm in Atlanta GPE /.

We have another news update coming up in just thirty minutes TIME /. More of CNN ORG 's Reliable Sources WORK_OF_ART continues right now /. Welcome back to the second half of Reliable Sources /. Our new time for those of you just turning in is ten AM eastern seven CARDINAL on the west coast /. And we 'll be bringing you a full hour of media interviews and analysis each week /. The Iraq GPE story which the media has placed on the back burner in recent months DATE is simmering again as voters in that war torn country went to the polls yesterday DATE to vote on a new constitution with the results yet to be counted /. But are journalists getting the real story there /? To help us scrutinize the coverage I sat down with a foreign affairs columnist of the New York Times ORG three CARDINAL time Pulitzer PERSON winner Tom Friedman PERSON and the author most recently of The World is Flat /. Tom Friedman PERSON welcome /.

Good to be here Howie PERSON /. thank you /. The other day you wrote that if you were the editor of the New York Times ORG you would 've led the paper with the news of recent days DATE that a Sunni NORP suicide bomber on Ramadan had attacked a Shiite NORP mosque /. Now in reality the world that you do n't rule New York Times ORG Washington Post ORG made that part of a larger story on Iraq GPE /. Uh nobody put it on the front page /. Bad news judgement /? Uh I think so Howie PERSON /. I 'm not here to make a news point though /. I 'm really making a larger point which is about the war on terrorism /. I 'm a firm believer /.

How we ever going to win this war /? We 're never going to win it by way of American NORP intelligence finding this terrorist or that terrorist /. We get lucky every once in a while /. but there 's only {one?} way we win this war Howie PERSON is it takes a village /. It only happens when the Sunni NORP Muslim world basically turns people in and when the Sunni NORP Muslim world restrains their own /. And what was so shocking to me about this story a Sunni NORP Jihadi suicide bomber blows up a mosque number one CARDINAL on the first day DATE of Ramadan /. What that tells you is that there 's no controlling moral authority today DATE in the Sunni Muslim NORP world /. Well what is the bigger story /? And that is a huge story /. I think it should have been a big story /.

Why was n't /- Is it because of Iraq GPE fatigue /? Um /. I think it is yeah /. Think it 's /- Are all the editors and producers and new executives feeling another day DATE another bombing ten CARDINAL killed twenty CARDINAL killed fifteen CARDINAL killed /. and it does n't rise anymore to the top of the newscast or the front page /? Right /. Yeah and I think that 's right /. There is Iraq GPE fatigue /.

And there 's so much fatigue that we do n't sit back and say wait a minute /. what happened today /? A Sunni NORP Muslim fundamentalist went into a mosque on the first day DATE of Ramadan their holiest day /. and no one says boo /. this is civilization that when we accidentally or deliberately I do n't know abused the Koran NORP people rioted in Pakistan GPE /. Yet their own houses of worship and holidays are being defiled /. And I think it is a measure of how much we 've kind of lost been numbed by all of this that we do n't sit back and say wow wait a minute /. that really crosses the line /. and we have to call them on it even if they do n't /. You 're recently back from Iraq GPE /.

and you write about driving in from Kuwait GPE /. You were guarded by the US GPE navy /. and yet it was kind of a harrowing experience /. Why so /? Um you know the south of Iraq GPE which is where I was the area around /. This is the safe part /. Right exactly /. I was in the safe district /. I was guarded uh by the British Royal Marines ORG actually because unfortunately they 've had now um uh roadside bombs down there not suicide bombs /. And it 's part of the general continuing insecurity of Iraq GPE that um I 'm afraid has plagued this story from the very beginning /.

And it 's been I 've always felt the Achille 's heel /. You know my criticism of the Bush PERSON administration as you know we 've talked about this before is not that this war is not important /. I believe it is important much more important than I think the left has ever fully recognized /. But it 's so much harder than the right has ever been willing to acknowledge /. And on that trip you put on body armor /. their rifles were out /. Yeah /. Um how does that affect your perception as a journalist /? You 're there /. you 're being protected /.

and you must have been a little bit nervous of what the safety situation is in there /. Well I 'll tell you what 's really frustrating from a journalist 's point of view as one who have lived in Beirut GPE for nearly five years DATE covered that war /. When I worked in Lebanon GPE you could go anywhere on that story /. You could cross lines /. Journalists worked for the most part until the very end with Terry Anderson PERSON the kidnappings targets /. Therefore by the end of the Lebanon GPE story I thought the best journalists there knew more than the Lebanese NORP /. I always thought the best compliment you could get as a journalist is when you told the Lebanese NORP something they did n't know because you were moving around so much /. What 's so frustrating about the Iraq GPE story Howie PERSON no one has a bird 's eye view /. I care passionately about this story /. I 'm so interested in it /.

but because of the securtiy situation you ca n't move around with the freedom you want /. And the brave reporters who are there every day do n't have that freedom of movement either /. And therefore it 's limited /. and in fact as you know the administration says because of the security situation and maybe because of some biases in the media /. There 's a lot of good things going on in Iraq GPE /. There 's a lot of progress being made we 're not seeing reported by the press /. Do you think that is a credible argument at this point in the mess there /? No because I do n't have a bird 's eye view /. I wish I could say /.

I wish I could be so sure /. but General Casey PERSON does n't have a bird 's eye view /. And that 's why we get surprises in Iraq GPE /. Uh that 's why we had an election where eight million people suddenly turn out /. and maybe you know we 're going to see more surpises in the coming future there /. But because no one can move around with the freedom that you need to talk to everyone you do n't have that bird 's eye view /. And as a reporter as a columnist who really cares about this story I find that really frustra- /- I can not report it the way I 'd love to /. So I 've been there five CARDINAL times /. but it 's episodic /.

It 's here /. It 's there /. It 's never really putting your arms around the story /. pulling back the camera a bit in recent months DATE you 'd have to say that the Iraq GPE story has been overshadowed by Katrina PERSON by Rita PERSON by Tom DeLay PERSON by Harriet Miers PERSON by Valerie Plame PERSON and now by this Pakistan GPE earthquake /. Um inevitable with a war that drags on and on /. and these are all also important stories obviously /. but uh do you feel it 's getting the attention that it should /? Yeah /. No because to me this is the whole ballgame of the Bush PERSON administration /. Katrina PERSON and Rita PERSON they 'll come and go /.

but at the end of the day DATE the Bush PERSON administration made a very big claim um that it could go to Iraq GPE um and produce a decent forward looking government there /. If that happens then I think President Bush PERSON is going to have a very huge quiver you know in his uh legacy there /. Um if it does n't happen I think uh the administration will be seen as a complete and utter failure /. so everything rides on this not just for the administration though but for the American NORP people /. These are huge stakes involved /. And so I do n't think it 's gotten the attention it 's deserved /. And going back again to one of your Iraq GPE collumns uh you observed the Iraqi NORP military there which after all is supposed to be increasingly shouldering the burden of this conflict /. The slightly ragged quality left you feeling you write that if you pulled the US GPE and British NORP advisors out tomorrow DATE the whole Iraqi NORP navy would collapse /. That 's a pretty pessimistic assessment and clearly at odds with what the White House ORG and the Defense Department ORG say every day /. /.

Not at odds though with what actually the military commanders have been saying which is that the number of really trained Iraqi NORP units you know are far fewer than sometimes suggested by the administration /. So you 're saying there 's a gap between what real time military commanders on the ground are willing to tell you not necessarily on the record /. You quoted one CARDINAL US GPE senior official and what the President of the United States GPE and the Vice President and the Secretary of Defense are saying to reporters every day /. Are we calling them on that /? Right I do n't think enough because there 's been a lot of happy talk around this Howie PERSON basically /. And a lot of numbers are thrown out /. Eighty thousand this week DATE we 've got trained a hundred and twenty thousand next week CARDINAL /. Here 's what you learn when you go to Iraq GPE /. Where you have an Iraqi NORP commander who 's a real leader of soldiers okay you have a unit /. And where you do n't have that commander you do n't have a unit /.

So the numbers the macro numbers do n't mean anything /. So I went down to see the navy there /. The navy of Iraq GPE has a terrific commander /. so the people around him they 'll follow him into battle /. But you take that one guy out there 's no Iraqi NORP navy /. and it 's true of units all over the country /. That 's really the key /. You say that you are angry uh that Bush PERSON has fought the war as though it would be easy /. Are you particularly angry as somebody who supported the war and took heat from some of your liberal friends for doing so /? Yes /.

Absolutely because I believe this is important /. I believe that something very big is at stake /. We 're dealing with a Muslim NORP Arab NORP civilization right now that 's that 's in decline , that 's heading in the wrong direction in ways that are dangerous for them and I believe dangerous for the stability of the world /. There 's something really important here at stake /. and what makes me so angry at the Bush PERSON administration is not that they did n't frame the stakes /. It is important /. But they never never appreciated how difficult it was /. They never prepared the army or the American NORP people for how difficult it was /. I mentioned the uh devastating earthquake in Pakistan GPE a region you 're familiar with /. Um clearly it 's become a pretty big story /.

but for the first couple days DATE I noticed it was n't that much of a television story /. and the reason was no pictures no video /. No yes /. Um but also maybe there was there a little bit less coverage because it 's in a remote part of the world /? Uh Westerners are more interested in New Orleans GPE than in Pakistan GPE /? I think all of the above /. We 're so numbed also after Katrina PERSON and Rita PERSON /. and now another earthquake /. /. It 's just become uh one CARDINAL natural disaster after another /.

to hear ten thousand twenty thousand forty thousand then it 's almost hard for a journalist to process /. Right /. And it was remote /. and people are exhausted I think both viewers and reporters /. Ahead have New York Times ORG columnists been asked not to write about Judy Miller PERSON /? More of my interview with Tom Friedman PERSON next /. Welcome back to Reliable Sources now a full hour each week here in our new time slot ten to eleven o'clock eastern /. More now of my conversation with New York Times ORG columnist Tom Friedman PERSON about his book the new online charge to read him and Judy Miller PERSON /. Now your new book The World is Flat I 've got it here /.

uh monster best seller more than a million CARDINAL copies better than any book you 've ever written before /. Um you were recently profiled about this in Fortune ORG magazine /. and uh let 's just say that it did n't say you walked on water but it came close /. Uh but one CARDINAL of the criticisms /- What 's wrong with that /? It says that you 're the composer of the nation 's talking points which was news to me /. Uh one CARDINAL of the things it said was that uh in your book and in your writing that CEOs play a very central role /. And the suggestion was well CEOs love you , you 're asked to speak at all these corporate events , maybe because you give them a very large uh share of the narrative /. Yeah /. Mhm /.

Mhm /. That a reasonable observation /? Yeah it is a reasonable observation /. And my reaction to that is look if I want to understand the underlying technology that is flattening the world who do I go to /? do I go to I do n't know Central America LOC /? Do I go to um uh the factory floor /? Or do I go to the innovators and entrepeneurs who actually put all this together /? So I make no apology for that at all /. Um fact I would make a criticism of it /. There are n't enough people during the last few years DATE who actually went out and talked to the innovators who are doing all of these things who are actually reshaping the world /.

Just the opposite /. We kind of had an Enron ORG effect /. and Enron ORG effect was all CEOs are guilty unless proven innocent , therefore who wants to talk to them /? And therefore I would argue -- /. Wait a second ORDINAL /. wait a second ORDINAL /. Journalists uh subscribe to stereotypes because there are a few crooks at major corporations because you know they 're all bad guys /? Yeah yeah /. Yeah I would say /. uh that 's a harsh uh assessment /.

I would say that there 's several things happened basically in the last three years DATE /. I would call it a perfect storm /. One CARDINAL was nine eleven EVENT /. That distracted us okay /. The other was the Enron ORG effect /. You know no one wanted to be sort of seen with CEOs /. And number three CARDINAL was the dot com bust which made everyone think well all this globalization technology stuff is really over /. And as a result I would argue that really masked what is actually a fundemental inflection point the flattening of the world that we 're going from a vertical value creation model of command and control to a much more horizontal one CARDINAL of connect and collaborate /. The argument of this book is that that shift is actually going to have as big an effect over time as Gutenberg PERSON and the printing press /. And I would argue a little bit that it got missed because of all these other distractions /.

But it 's only had an effect on Tom Friedman 's PERSON career /. In fact you were the Playboy WORK_OF_ART interview /. Hey put that paper down /. /. I bought it for the articles /. Uh I enjoyed the interview /. and you said in there that your wife uh edits all your columns and she says do n't publish it /. Yes she does /. You go back and rewrite it /. I 'm afraid I do /.

/. My wife Andrea PERSON edits them all /. and when she gives me thumbs down Howie PERSON I have to put it in a ball throw it in the circular file and start over /. and she 's a tough editor /. Now your international readership on the New York Times ORG website has gone down because of this new experiment the Times ORG has where it costs forty nine TIME ninety - five a year DATE for non-subscribers at home to read Times ORG columnists /. That 's got to be disappointing for you /. You know um I 'm torn /. Uh and I 've said this to my bosses /. Um I want my paper to thrive /.

and if we have a situation where young people grow up in the world that thinks that newspapers are things you read for free online who 's going to pay my travel expenses /? And at the same time one CARDINAL of the greatest things about New York Times ORG online is I got to reach an audience that just was exponential to what you got in the dead tree edition of the New York Times ORG /. And because I write about international affairs so I got a lot of young people in India GPE and Egypt GPE and whatnot /. and for them fifty dollars MONEY that may be their tuition for half a year DATE /. So I 'm honestly torn /. I really hope this works because I want the New York Times ORG to have a platform that is sustainable /. But at the same time I hope we can eventually find a way to re-engage those people because definitely we 've lost some of them /. Eh in the Valerie Plame PERSON leak investigation there 's an allegation bouncing around the blogosphere that I just thought I would address with you which is have New York Times ORG columnists somehow been told not to write about this because of Judy Miller 's PERSON involvement and being in jail , now being out of jail /. absolutely not /. Anybody tell you not to write about it /?

I mean they do n't tell me not to write about anything /. Howie PERSON we are home alone okay /. I mean I 'm going to China GPE uh on Monday DATE /. and there 's only one person knows I 'm going /. and that 's my assistant /. So um /- Did you even tell the boss /? That 's right /. so there 's no edict out there /. why people have n't written about it I do n't know /. I 'm focused on other things /.

There 's a lot we do n't know obviously about the Judith Miller PERSON situation /. but why do you think that she has gotten so much criticism /? After all whether you agree with her or not this is a woman who believed in her convictions and went off to jail for eighty - five days DATE /. Um you know um Judy PERSON 's always been a pioneer and an agent of change you know um and uh has been at the forefront of a lot of stories /. and people like that in our business um uh engender a lot of attention a lot of criticism and a lot of jealousy /. Um and uh that 's the only way I can really explain /. Tom Friedman PERSON /. Up next did the media get carried away with last week 's DATE subway terror alert /? We 'll ride the rails into the spin cycle next /.

When New York GPE mayor Mike Bloomberg PERSON announced last week DATE that there was a possible terror threat against the city 's subways I thought here we go again /. And television was all over the story /. Here in New York GPE tonight TIME officials say they are increasing security on the city 's massive subway system because of what they call a significant and credible threat /. The threat to attack the subways in coming days DATE comes from overseas /. and the police here will be searching bags briefcases even baby strollers to try to stop it /. It was let 's face it irresistable /. And since it was right there in the Big Apple cable anchors and correspondents could provide almost non-stop on the scene coverage /. The threat concerns the New York City GPE subway system behind me around me literally beneath our feet here in Times Square FAC /. The Fox News ORG alert New York City GPE subways are on a heightened state of alert this evening TIME after what officials are describing as a specific threat /. And the city 's tabloids were n't far behind /.

The problem as with so many previous terror alerts is that allegations from informants are inherently shaky /. And some correspondents offered caveats of course /. MSNBC ORG anchor Keith Olbermann PERSON could n't help but notice on that day October six DATE it was news that Karl Rove PERSON had been called back to testify in the CIA ORG leak case and the white house is being assailed by conservatives over the Harriet Miers PERSON nomination /. events that have been politically disadvantageous to the current administration have been uh occuring simultaneously or followed quickly upon with something related to terrorism on a big scale /. By the next morning TIME the New York Times ORG and the Washington Post ORG were reporting that federal authorities were playing down the threat as noncredible /. But the TV coverage kept rolling down the track like the number four CARDINAL express /. Finally last Tuesday DATE some newspapers and then the cable networks reported that the whole thing was a hoax /. The CBS ORG evening news gave that three CARDINAL sentences /. Well Jim Stewart PERSON of our Washington GPE bureau quotes government sources tonight TIME as saying the Iraqi NORP man who gave that tip to US GPE intelligence agents in Iraq GPE now says the information was simply not true /. But that 's a lot more than NBC Nightly News ORG and ABC ORG 's World News ORG Tonight TIME which did n't mention the great subway hoax at all /.

In an age of terror such threats obviously need to be reported /. but given the unreliability of intelligence television ought to learn a lesson here about not going on high alert and scaring people /. When we come back one CARDINAL network up the river without an explanation /. Reporters are tired of the usual standups you know Howard Kurtz Oshkosh Wisconsin PERSON /. They want to be riding on a train or walking in the rain or something to get attention /. So when NBC ORG 's Michelle Kosinski PERSON was covering some flooding in New Jersey GPE for the Today Show ORG Friday she set out in a canoe /. And everything was going smoothly until /- Well take a look /. Good morning TIME /.

Well obviously we 're getting a nice break from the rain but not the flooding /. This is essentially now a part of the Passaic River LOC in this neighborhood /. Two CARDINAL guys walk into the shot /. and we see that the water is only maybe four inches deep /. Talk about shallow reporting /. And as the Media Research Center ORG pointed out this was right before the Today Show accused President Bush PERSON of staging his conversation with soldiers in Iraq GPE /. Well that 's it for this edition of Reliable Sources /. Join us again next Sunday DATE at our new time ten o'clock eastern TIME seven CARDINAL pacific for a full hour TIME of critiquing the media /. Late Edition WORK_OF_ART with Wolf Blitzer PERSON begins right now /. This is Late Edition the last WORK_OF_ART word in Sunday DATE talk /.

All the indications we are getting even /. Um , I think that the police should all have their own district of jurisdiction . Uh-huh . If he 's going to leave your , this , district of jurisdiction , there might be some problems when making an arrest . It wo n't be as , this , convenient as in your own jurisdiction . Ah , it 'll be troublesome . Yes , yes , yes . What do you do when you encounter such a situation . I would have the security guards follow him and conceal myself well .

I myself , eh , am a plain - clothes policeman , so I would carry my work ID and wait somewhere he would show up . Uh-huh . Do n't move . I took out my work ID from my pocket , see , I 'm a policeman , I am the local regional police officer here . Well , I am the regional police officer for the something , something police post controlled in the West End LOC . What are you doing here . I 'm not doing anything . That 's not right . One CARDINAL look at you tells me you 're up to no good .

Uh , I 've been watching you . You 've been eyeing that lady 's pocket , that satchel . Are you planning to steal it . Are you carrying a knife . I 'm not carrying a knife . not good enough . I have to search you . So I quickly searched him . There is a technique to this . Doing the search I verified that he was carrying a tool used for criminal acts .

At this point , I did n't stop . My eyebrows did n't move . I did n't have any feeling . Uh-huh . ah , I quickly patted him down . I do this everyday . It was an awl , then I continued working downward . I worked downward , working toward the shoes , moving toward the pant legs , lifting the pant legs , and then taking off the shoes and pulling out the cushions inside the shoes . Uh-huh , nothing . There was really nothing .

Uh-huh , well , I see that you do n't look like a good person still , right . You see that . It 's Haidian , Uh . This is my stomping ground , ah . So go to there . When you 're there , I do n't care what you want to do . Uh , go , go . Ha , so in this way he was eh , coaxed back . Yes , he was coaxed back . After he was coaxed back , he again took his original path .

Uh-huh . Then when he was caught , his entire process was filmed with a DV machine . And is he still on your turf . This version of events given on the spot will make ordinary people feel extremely happy . Um , well , we also want to know , uh , in Britain GPE , including its media and also the people , what kind of attitude they really have toward this incident . Has the incident raised any worries locally regarding security . Um , it 's fair to say that the British NORP media is giving a lot of attention to the matter . Recently , the large newspapers , the Times ORG , Britain GPE 's , uh , BBC ORG , uh , this , the major media , we should say , uh , uh , have all devoted a lot of space to this matter . Um , the reaction of Britain GPE 's political community toward the incident , eh , can also be said to be very , um , er , er , sharp .

So , uh , one CARDINAL is that at the time , um , Britain GPE very quickly summoned , um , the Russian NORP , um , ambassador to Great Britain GPE , uh , to ask that they promptly provide related information and , um , cooperation in the investigation over this affair . Secondly ORDINAL , eh , um , the British Home ORG Secretary Reid PERSON , eh , he has especially formed an investigation team , and , wants to assess together with experts the incident 's , um , um , possible effects on the British NORP public . So today DATE , the 30th , well , the home secretary , eh , also need to explain this matter to the British NORP parliament , eh , to the MPs , and undergo , um , questioning by the MPs . How are Hong Kong 's GPE relations with the mainland . To describe it in one CARDINAL sentence , in the past the economic relationship consisted of everybody making money in Hong Kong GPE and then spending it in the mainland . But as the renminbi increases in value , many people today are speculating that in the future they might work hard in the mainland and then come to Hong Kong GPE to enjoy life . Is such a trend possible , Professor Ha . Ah , I think , um , that when one CARDINAL works in the mainland and then comes to Hong Kong GPE to spend money , um , there is a big difference in the wages between the two CARDINAL regions and maybe , um , the burden will be quite heavy , ah . Uh-huh , but what everybody is most concerned about is how feasible it is to link the Hong Kong GPE dollar , ah , to the renminbi .

many Hong Kong GPE academics these days DATE have come out with some calls for such a thing , oh . What 's your opinion . I think that , um , the market might have a wide variety of conjecture regarding , um , the Hong Kong GPE dollar 's , ah , future and even the direction , eh , that policy on it might take , a wide variety of , er , expectations . Right . But , um , judging from the current situation , I personally think there is n't the basic support for linking the Hong Kong GPE dollar and the renminbi . Nor at the policy level is such a thing being considered . Looking at the fundamentals , can we see why the renminbi is appreciating . It 's because um , China GPE 's current account surplus is quite large , ah , processing trade and the transit trade -- both are processing trade -- and this , regular trade all have , this , surplus . Um , also , the growth in foreign exchange reserves has been quite rapid because the flow of money is n't outward .

You just said , ah , secondly , we need to look at the new products , and thirdly , look at the new technology . Uh , yes , I have also heard of such a professional voice , that there is not a lot of new technology in the Beijing GPE car show this time . I believe this can be seen dialectically . Yes . Ah , eh , for any company to participate in an exhibition , first ORDINAL , its chief purpose in participating in this exhibition is to enter this market . Within a period of time in the future , as the Chinese NORP market , ah , with its spending trends , the direction of government policies , and the actual strength of national economic income , will all decide for the enterprise what type of technology and products they will showcase during this car exhibition . So if we were to rate the Beijing Auto Show FAC with other A - level exhibitions in the world , there was indeed a technological difference . This is an objective fact . But on the other hand , looking at the future of China GPE 's consumer market , I think the new technology brought to this car show is sufficient for us Chinese NORP who are in the auto industry to learn , eh , to catch up and to surpass .

Recently I 've had a , ah , feeling . You know I was doing that Inside Big Cases program , right . Yeah . Yeah . Oh , my lord ! always talking about these weird cases . Of course , it 's possible that , this , the news media , uh , this , would deliberately search for murder , violence , and pornography . Looking for the extraordinary . But on the other hand , I would say that any of the cases they found , any single one , would still definitely make a big news story causing a sensation across the country , even if it happened in the US GPE . Uh-huh .

Why were there so many . For example , psycho serial killers . Uh-huh . I tell you , at the peak I had head about almost three or four CARDINAL cases a month . Uh-huh . What was it all about . Killing people by the dozen CARDINAL , raping the corpses , dismember the bodies , and dumping the bodies , they were mostly all the same kind of thing . But there were n't many in mainland China GPE who killed their family members , were there . They killed other people . There were very few who actually killed their own wives and children or entire families at home .

Er . There were those who killed their own relatives , uh-huh . There were also some . There have been too , I 've heard of them too -- I 've heard of them too -- I 've heard of them too . You know , recently , this , an old professor called Professor Liu Xiwei PERSON published some views in Southern Weekend LOC , that have stirred up a huge controversy . Yeah . Uh-huh . Well , Professor Ji PERSON , uh , what position and task has North Korea GPE brought with it when it came to participate in the six CARDINAL - party talks this time . I think , this , North Korea 's GPE consideration may include such two CARDINAL perspectives , eh , the short - term and the long - term considerations ,

From the short - term perspective , eh , it still mainly wants to relieve its current pressure and resolve the issue of the two CARDINAL sanctions . One CARDINAL is the US GPE financial sanctions ; the other is the sanctions imposed by the UN Security Council Resolution 1718 ORG . Uh-huh . Well , from the long - term perspective , the purpose , um , of North Korea 's GPE participation in the six CARDINAL - party talks , eh , is also to resolve issues of its concern through the process , eh , of denuclearization of the peninsula . This , there may be , er , quite a number of concerns , yet the most important one CARDINAL remains the security concern , an issue of its relations with the US GPE . Uh-huh . Well , what needs to be emphasized here is that prior to , this , this session of talks , North Korea GPE has repeatedly stressed that it is already a nuclear country now . So in the future , the issue of the nuclear - free peninsula , uh , will not be merely an issue of , this , North Korea 's GPE nuclear abandonment itself but will also include the issue of disarmament on the entire peninsula . Yeah .

Dealing with serial crimes per se /. We can see the emerging behavior /. we can see that this is a behavior that is not going to stop /. You can have hundreds CARDINAL of individuals as suspects and can narrow the focus of your investigation to a smaller pool of people /. And it gives you a starting point /. The good news is even though at any given point in time that there are these people out there perpetrating these crimes we are getting better at catching them and better at catching them sooner So that instead of waiting until they 've committed twelve crimes or instead of having twelve murders take place before we catch somebody now we may catch them after the first ORDINAL or second ORDINAL murder /. I will never in my lifetime learn why a serial killer becomes a serial killer /. But maybe the work that I 'm doing now will be able to take other people down avenues to explore with more tools with more ability to experiment with more ability to study on a hands - on basis /. But I will never learn that /. As a psychologist through all the interviews that I 've conducted all the cases that I 've reviewed what I 've learned is that these people while bright um and while at some level charming are emotionally and spiritually bankrupt /.

and I 've learned that there is such a thing as evil /. While criminal profiling has been the topic of best selling books and award winning films it is merely one CARDINAL tool used to solve crimes /. The fact is that often offenders are caught while committing minor crimes like traffic violations or simply because they raise suspicion of local police /. That 's our crime files investigation /. I 'm John Seganthaler PERSON /. From NBC ORG news in Washington GPE this is Meet The Press ORG with Tim Russet PERSON /. Our issues this Sunday North Korea 's GPE Kim Jong - Il PERSON defies the world testing long range missiles which one day DATE could deliver nuclear warheads /. Can this man be stopped /? With us from the Bush PERSON administration the third ORDINAL ranking official at the state department Ambassador Nicholas Burns PERSON The former Assistant Secretary of Defense ORG Ashton Carter PERSON of Harvard University 's ORG Kennedy PERSON school of government The man who led the negotiations for the nineteen ninety four DATE nuclear agreement with North Korea GPE Robert Gallucci Dean PERSON of the School of Foreign Service ORG at Georgetown University ORG And the former US GPE Ambassador to the United Nations ORG who has visited North Korea GPE five CARDINAL times Governor Bill Richardson PERSON of New Mexico GPE /.

And in our Meet the Press Minute ORG former President Gerald Ford PERSON turns ninety three this week DATE /. He last appeared as president on Meet the Press ORG thirty one years ago DATE when he talked about age as a state of mind /. But first ORDINAL North Korea GPE /. on the fourth of July DATE North Korea GPE tested medium and long range +missiles /. and their nuclear program appears to be full speed ahead /. What is the Bush PERSON administration going to do about it /? Here with us the Undersecretary of State ORG Nicholas Burns PERSON /. Mr. Ambassador PERSON good morning TIME /. Thank you Tim PERSON /.

good morning /. Will the United States GPE insist that the United Nations impose sanctions against North Korea GPE /? Well we are pursuing a very aggressive resolution up in New York GPE at the Security Council ORG /. and we think we 've got the votes to pass that /. But we 're also operating on multiple diplomatic fronts /. We have our lead negotiator Chris Hill PERSON Ambassador Hill PERSON in Beijing Seoul GPE and Tokyo GPE this week DATE /. President Bush PERSON and Secretary Rice PERSON have been working the phones with uh their counterparts /. And we 've also had a very interesting development today DATE /. the Chinese Government ORG is sending tonight TIME to a senior delegation /. And you know frankly we think it 's time for China GPE to use its influence with North Korea GPE /.

The Chinese NORP have influence certainly more than the United States GPE and the other members of the international community dealing with this problem /. China GPE now has an opportunity to put its best foot forward , to send the North Koreans NORP a direct message that these missile tests can not be tolerated and the North Koreans now have to come back to the September nineteenth DATE two thousand five DATE agreement and they 've got to denuclearize give up their nuclear ambitions and abide by the agreement that they made with the rest of us nearly a year ago DATE /. But the South Koreans and the Chinese NORP have both said they do not believe there should be sanctions against North Korea GPE /. Will the US GPE absolutely insist that there be sanctions in the UN ORG resolution /? If you look at this UN ORG resolution that 's under debate in New York GPE it does /. it 's a chapter seven resolution so it has the effect of compulsory behavior by all the member states /. It says that what the North Koreans NORP did was a threat to international peace and security /. It does ask all member states not to engage in nuclear trade with North Korea GPE /. That strikes us as an obvious point /. And I think what we have to do we 'll see a lot of diplomacy over the next couple of days DATE /.

we 'll have to see how the Chinese NORP and Russians NORP react to this /. but our view is that the five CARDINAL parties ought to remain united and that the goal of the current diplomacy should be to use the combined leverage of China GPE and Russia GPE 's of South Korea Japan GPE and the United States GPE to force the North Koreans NORP back to the negotiating table /. That 's certainly the best policy for the United States GPE /. Force the North Koreans NORP back to the negotiating table /. there are many as you know Mister Ambassador who believe the North Koreans did this launch on the fourth of July to get our attention Because they saw the way we were treating Iran GPE differently than we were treating North Korea GPE /. Here 's one CARDINAL Nicholas Burns PERSON on National Public Radio ORG /. With Iran GPE the United States GPE has made an offer /. and that is we are willing to sit down and negotiate with the Iranians NORP assuming and contingent upon their suspension of their nuclear activities at their plant in the in Iran GPE /. Why not sit down in the same way with North Koreans Say to them stop developing your program /. and we 'll sit down with you one CARDINAL on one CARDINAL /.

Well Tim PERSON we 're trying to sit down with the North Koreans NORP in the context of the six CARDINAL party talks /. We 've been saying for months DATE now that the right step forward is for North Korea GPE to return to these talks /. but we really do n't see the logic in turning this into a test of wills between two CARDINAL countries the United States GPE and North Korea GPE /. The fact is that China GPE has the same interest as the United States GPE /. It should have the same interest /. And that is to stop the North Korea GPE nuclear program /. Our allies Japan GPE and South Korea GPE have the same interests /. and the Russians NORP do as well /. And so we think we 're far better off working within the framework of the six CARDINAL party talks because you get in that process the combined leverage the combined strength and frankly the combined pressure on North Korea GPE of all these different countries /. I simply do n't see why it 's in the interest of the United States GPE to get those countries out of the way and only deal with North Korea GPE directly /.

So the problem here is not the lack of discussion between the United States GPE and North Korea GPE /. We 're perfectly willing to sit down with them in that six CARDINAL party environment /. and in that sense it 's analogous to what we 're trying to do with Iran GPE /. Secretary Rice PERSON announced about a month ago DATE that should the Iranians NORP meet the condition of suspension of their own nuclear activities we 'd be willing to sit down in another multilateral forum /. and that 's with the Europeans NORP and Russians NORP and Chinese NORP /. So really you know the North Korea GPE problem is not a problem just for the United States GPE /. What they did the other day on July fourth DATE was to disrupt the peace and harmony of their relations with the Asian NORP countries /. And the Asian NORP countries want to be involved in these negotiations /. Is it the policy of the Bush PERSON administration that we 'd like to see regime change in North Korea GPE /? Well this is one CARDINAL of the most despotic regimes in the world /.

it 's a major human rights violator /. There 's massive famine /. And certainly we hope for the day will come when those people will live in peace and be governed by a different type of government /. Uh what we 've got to do now of course is focus on the most immediate problem /. And that problem is nuclear weapons /. The problem is the ballistic launches of the other day /. I think the thing to remember about those launches by the way they were provocative , they were reckless , they were also unsuccessful /. They fired four CARDINAL scud missiles intermediate range missiles /. They tried to fire the longer range missile the /. and that was spectacularly unsuccessful /.

It crashed in the sea of Japan GPE /. So we obviously have an opportunity now for diplomacy . And an opportunity to use the combined strength of all these countries to provide some leverage put some leverage against the North Koreans NORP /. and that 's what we will continue to try to do in the coming days DATE and coming weeks DATE /. Will the United States GPE give North Korea GPE security assurances that we will not attack their country or seek to undermine their regime /? If you look back at this historic agreement that was signed in the six CARDINAL party frameworks on September nineteenth DATE of two thousand five DATE those types of assurances are in that agreement /. But the North Koreans NORP have obligations /. and that is to take down their nuclear program dismantle it dismantle their weapons of mass destruction programs in a verifiable way before all those assurances can go into place /. All the other elements of the agreement can be put into place /. And what we 've seen since then is we 've seen the United States GPE and Russia GPE and China GPE and Japan GPE and South Korea GPE willing to go forward willing to sit down willing to implement this entire agreement that you just referred to Tim PERSON /.

but we see the North Koreans NORP walking away from it /. So we 've got to be very persistent and frankly very tough in combining with these other countries to pressure the North Koreans NORP to live up to their commitments /. But we would be willing to give North Korea GPE increased economic aid perhaps light nuclear reactors for peaceful means and security assurance if in fact they sat down and negotiated /? The North Koreans know what 's in the September nineteenth DATE agreement /. and it 's very specific about what the United States GPE is willing to do uh to take a step forward towards them should they dismantle all their nuclear programs and their weapons of mass destruction /. But they 've got responsibilities in this agreement /. and no agreement is whole until both sides meet their agreement /. And what we 've seen Tim PERSON especially on July Fourth DATE is the North Koreans NORP in outright violation of the agreement that we made with them last September DATE /. Why do you think the North Koreans NORP chose July Fourth /? Oh I do n't think it was coincidental /.

You know it 's a very unreliable and unpredictable regime /. The last thing we want to do is react to every wild statement that they make /. but they certainly chose that to get our attention and that of the international community /. Uh but what they 've got to realize is there is no magic bullet here /. They ca n't just think that they can sit down with the United States GPE alone /. That does n't work for Japan GPE /. it does n't work with South Korea GPE /. and frankly it does n't work with the Chinese NORP /. So I said before that one CARDINAL of the most interesting developments here is this Chinese NORP delegation going to /. And Chris Hill PERSON our ambassador was in China GPE a few days ago DATE /.

he made the point and Secretary Rice PERSON made the point yesterday DATE to the Chinese NORP Foreign minister , we want to see China GPE use its influence /. We want to see China GPE push forward and ask the North Koreans NORP to meet these commitments that they 've made to all of us /. Speaker Newt Gingrich PERSON the former speaker Republican NORP weighed in on this debate in this way /. he offered this /. The time to replace the state department 's failed North Korea GPE strategy of talk forever , act never has come /. For thirteen years DATE the United States GPE has talked loudly about a North Korea GPE nuclear weapons and ballistic missile threat /. For thirteen years DATE the North Korean NORP dictatorship has lied and hunkered down and continued to build nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles /. The strategy of talking has failed /. America GPE 's actions must be decisive or faced with a brutal totalitarian dictatorship about which we know little /. It is acting in defiance of all its own international commitments /.

But the time for talk is over /. either they dismantle the missile /. or we the United States GPE should dismantle it /. Well uh with all due respect to Speaker Gingrich PERSON we are on a course which has a reasonable chance of success /. And you never want to disavow a diplomatic track a negotiating track if you think you can resolve the problem in that fashion /. And as I said before we are not alone in this endeavor /. we have countries united with us who can apply the same type of pressure /. I will say this what the North Koreans NORP have done over the past week DATE is going to give a lot of strength in our efforts to develop a missile defense system /. You 've seen very strong statements by the Japanese NORP government wanting to work with us in that realm /. So obviously we 're going to pursue a very tough very decisive policy over the coming weeks DATE designed to focus the North Koreans NORP on their obligations To pressure them to come back to the talks But also certainly to provide for our own defense and the defense of our treaty allies in Asia LOC /.

And I think you 'll see us move ahead smartly in that direction as well /. Uh Mister Ambassador many critics will say the six years George Bush PERSON has been president North Korea 's GPE program has developed rather dramatically That the policy at first ORDINAL of isolation and then the six CARDINAL party talk just has n't worked /. Here 's the latest study from the Institute for Science and International Security ORG /. They estimated a report that North Korea GPE has enough separated plutonium to develop now an arsenal of four CARDINAL to thirteen CARDINAL nuclear weapons compared with estimates of just one CARDINAL or two weapons in two thousand DATE when George bush became president /. The group says that by two thousand eight DATE North Korea GPE could have enough plutonium for eight CARDINAL to seventeen CARDINAL nuclear weapons /. The group 's assessment based on analysis of satellite imagery media reports and statements by North Korean NORP officials which lead Nick Everstat PERSON a conservative critic from the American Enterprise Institute ORG these are not Democrats NORP /- he offered this /. although the Bush PERSON administration 's rhetoric about Kim Jong - Il PERSON and his regime has sometimes seemed ferocious North Korea 's GPE leaders seem to have concluded that the Bush North Korea policy consists mainly of empty words and that oft repeated warning need not be taken terribly seriously /. By more than one CARDINAL criteria indeed strategic successes on the Bush PERSON watch outshine those from its during the Clinton PERSON years /.

Would you acknowledge a significant increase in the nuclear capability by North Korea GPE on the watch of President Bush PERSON /? Tim PERSON um obviously we profoundly disagree with um some of the statements that we 've just heard /. Eh you know we 've got a very strong military force and deterrent force at work in Asia LOC and particularly on the Korean peninsula /. And that military can handle any contingency that should arise /. We also have a very tough policy and I think forward looking policy to develop missile defense to handle those contingencies /. But you 've got to combine military measures with diplomacy to be effective in a situation like this /. The fact is that a lot of this criticism seems to direct the United States GPE back to a test of wills bilaterally between North Korea GPE and the United States GPE /. What we want to do is we want to ask countries that do have a great deal of influence on North Korea GPE certainly more than we have to use that influence /. We can do that by channeling those efforts through the six CARDINAL party framework /. And you know diplomacy sometimes ca n't succeed in a day or two or a week or two CARDINAL /.

Sometimes it takes many months or even years to succeed /. But if you have the right policy in place , if you know what you 're trying to accomplish and if you 're very tough - minded about applying that policy we can be successful /. So we have not given up hope that we can engineer a policy that will effectively put the North Koreans NORP back in the box take away their nuclear programs and take away their ability to inflict threats and damage on their neighbors /. We have got to be single - minded about this /. we certainly understand the gravity of a challenge posed by North Korea GPE /. but frankly I do n't think these critics have offered any alternative that would have a reasonable prospect of success or lead us to unintended consequences uh if you went down the road that some of them are suggesting /. And we think we 've got the right policy in place /. and I can assure you we 're going to drive with a great deal of energy and determination /. But you do not deny that North Korea 's GPE nuclear capability has increased during the presidency of George Bush PERSON /? Well North Korea GPE says that it has a nuclear weapons capability /.

and we believe that it has produced that over the last several years DATE /. and that 's why we 've put in place this policy designed to take it away from them /. And if we can have the September nineteenth DATE two thousand five DATE agreement implemented it will do just that /. It will effectively de-nuclearize North Korea GPE /. And so that is a good bet for the United States GPE /. It 's obviously the goal that I think all these critics that you cite would share /. But we think we 've got a much more realistic in the real world strategy put in place to deal with that problem /. But there has been a profound change in the rhetoric certainly of the President on this subject /. Here 's the President Friday DATE at this news conference in Chicago GPE about North Korea GPE /.

It takes a while for a problem to fester and grow /. and then it takes a while to solve them diplomatically /. It just 's the nature of diplomacy /. Wish we could solve them overnight /. And let me go back to January DATE of two thousand two in the President 's axis of evil speech before congress /. Let 's watch /. North Korea GPE has a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction While starving its citizens /. States GPE like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil arming to threaten the peace of the world /. By seeking weapons of mass destruction these regimes pose a grave and growing danger /. We 'll be deliberate /.

yet time is not on our side /. I will not wait on events while dangers gather /. I will not stand by as peril draws closer and closer /. The United States of America GPE will not permit the world 's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world 's most destructive weapons /. Since the President uttered those words Mister Ambassador every estimate is that North Korea GPE has doubled its capacity to develop nuclear weapons /. And yet we 've driven forward with this policy designed to respond to all the things the President talked about back in two thousand two DATE /. But he has been very consistent since then in putting forward the proposition that we have to oppose the human rights abuses of the government /. We have to try to draw a net around the fact that North Korea GPE is the leading exporter of ballistic missile technology around the world The proliferator of it /. we 've done a lot to develop missile defense /. And we 've created and driven forward this diplomatic coalition designed to bring us to a victory in denying North Korea GPE the nuclear weaponry that you talk about /.

So we have been very activist /. We have followed this policy for a number of years DATE /. Uh the President is right /. And as I said before diplomacy ca n't be measured in a snapshot /. You ca n't just say in a Sunday morning in July DATE that somehow because we have n't come to the end of negotiations these negotiations are bound to fail /. You 've got to be very purposeful and directed in what you 're trying to do and apply the weight of your country and that of others to the test /. And that 's what we 're doing /. We have not given up on this quest to come to the end of these negotiations and put the North Koreans NORP back into a place where they can no longer be a threat to their neighbors or to the United States GPE /. But again it 's the tone and the rhetoric /. Let me go back and review some of the things the President has said about Kim Jong - Il of PERSON North Korea GPE /.

I loathe Kim Jong - Il PERSON /. I got a visceral reaction to this guy /. And then in two thousand four DATE there 's a tyrant in North Korea GPE that wants to develop a nuclear weapon /. And then this in two thousand two DATE /. the President called him a pygmy And compared him to a spoiled child at a dinner table /. Does the President still believe that Kim Jong - Il PERSON is a tyrant a pygmy and a spoiled child /. Kim Jong - Il PERSON is a despot /. And he is someone who is one CARDINAL of the worst offenders of human rights all over the world /. Uh these missile tests the other day were certainly reckless /. They were provocative /.

And so uh we have n't changed our opinion of the nature of the regime in North Korea GPE /. No one in our government has /. We are very clear - eyed about who they are , what they represent , how much they 've denied their own people the basic human rights that people should have around the world /. And we 're focused on this nuclear question as well /. So I think there 's been a lot of continuity over American NORP policy both in the substance of the policy and in the way we 've talked about North Korea GPE over the last several years DATE /. And uh we 're determined to press ahead /. When the president talked about the axis of evil he said Iraq GPE North Korea GPE and Iran GPE /. The United States GPE invaded one CARDINAL of those countries Iraq GPE /. Some now make the case that Iran GPE and North Korea GPE took from that the following lesson that if you develop a nuclear bomb and have a strong military you will not be invaded by the US GPE /.

And both of those countries have clearly miscalculated their own situation /. Now the North Koreans NORP felt I guess that by testing these ballistic missiles they would somehow put themselves in a position of greater weight in the negotiations /. They 've miscalculated because you 've seen very tough statements from the Chinese NORP and the Russians NORP and the South Koreans and the Japanese NORP against what they 've done /. and you see momentum building in the UN ORG security council toward a very tough chapter seven CARDINAL resolution against them /. The Iranians NORP have miscalculated /. They thought that they could divide the United States GPE from both our European NORP allies and from Russia GPE and China GPE /. But we 've been able to craft a major and united coalition of all those countries /. And we 've essentially given the Iranians NORP a clear choice /. And you 'll see a lot of this unfold this week DATE both in Europe LOC when Secretary Rice PERSON meets with her counterparts on Wednesday DATE at the GA ORG summit in St. Petersburgh GPE At the end of the week DATE when the president is there /. the Iranians NORP are going to have to choose /.

Negotiations with us after they suspend their nuclear programs or further action in the Security Council ORG /. So I do n't think either of these countries is on the offensive /. Frankly I think both of these countries are rather cornered and isolated /. There are very few countries defending them /. and they 're running out of options /. So we think this policy of patient diplomacy and of crafting multilateral coalitions to tighten the pressure around them is going to work /. And it 's the right way to go clearly for the United States GPE /. we want to exhaust diplomatic means before we consider other means /. Based on our experience in Iraq GPE particularly with our emphasis on the weapons of mass destruction that did not materialize John Deutch PERSON the former head of the CIA ORG offered this observation /. the next time military intervention is judged necessary to combat the spread of weapons of mass destruction for example North Korea GPE there will be skepticism about the quality of our intelligence /.

Do you agree with that /? I do n't /. not in the case of North Korea GPE not in the case of Iran GPE /. Tim PERSON I 've been to Europe LOC twenty CARDINAL times over the last fourteen months DATE to talk to the Europeans NORP and the Russians NORP and Chinese NORP about Iran GPE for instance /. There 's not a single person at the higher levels of those government who does n't believe Iran GPE is trying to create a nuclear weapons capability /. There is n't a single person in the governments of China GPE or Russia GPE or South Korea GPE or Japan GPE who does n't believe that North Korea GPE is bent on building up its nuclear capability /. There is no argument in the real world today DATE about what these two CARDINAL countries Iran GPE and North Korea GPE are trying to do /. There is no argument remotely similar to what we went through in two thousand and two DATE and three with our European NORP allies over Iraq GPE /. In fact we are now tightly knit up with these countries /. And if you look at what the French NORP German NORP and British NORP governments are saying as well as the Russian NORP and Chinese NORP governments about whether or not these countries are intending to create a nuclear weapons capability they agree with our assessment /.

So I do n't agree at all that we 're somehow limited in what we can do and limited in our effectiveness because of the disagreements that we had over WMD in Iraq GPE /. Let me conclude with comments by Bill Crystal PERSON the editor of Weekly Standard ORG /. he used to work for Vice President Dan Quail PERSON /. North Korea GPE is firing missiles /. Iran GPE is going nuclear /. Somalia GPE is controlled by radical Islamists /. Iraq GPE is n't getting better /. and Afghanistan GPE is getting worse /. I give the President a lot of credit for hanging tough on Iraq GPE /. but I am worried that it has made them too passive in confronting the other threats /.

Have a preoccupation with Iraq GPE allowed North Korea GPE and Iran GPE to go forward with their nuclear programs and limited our options /? Well I strongly disagree with that criticism from Bill Crystal PERSON /. And I disagree for one CARDINAL reason /. We have a very strong and active government /. from the Pentagon FAC from the State Department the White House ORG Treasury we are focused on all these problems /. We created over the last fifteen months DATE a major international coalition to corner the Iranian NORP government And to isolate them /. And that 's been a diplomatic success over the last several months DATE /. We 've now got this six CARDINAL party talk framework we hope coming back together /. and certainly the five CARDINAL countries are united /. Uh Secretary Rumsfeld PERSON was in Afghanistan GPE this morning TIME /.

and Secretary Rice PERSON was there ten days ago DATE /. and we 're giving that government president government all the support it can get /. We are a government that can operate /. and we have to operate in every part of the world /. We 're a global superpower /. We have tremendous resources at our disposal /. and frankly we 've got a first ORDINAL class military and a first ORDINAL class diplomatic effort /. and we can certainly take on all these issues and be successful simultaneously /. And we will be watching /. Ambassador Nicholas Burns PERSON we thank you for sharing your views /.

Thanks Tim PERSON /. Coming next the view of three CARDINAL former Clinton Administration PERSON officials who spent years DATE dealing with the North Korea GPE problem former Assistant Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter PERSON chief State Department ORG negotiator now at the Georgetown University FAC Robert Gallucci PERSON And former US GPE ambassador to the UN ORG now Governor of New Mexico GPE Bill Richardson PERSON /. They are all right here next only on Meet The Press ORG /. And we are back /. Welcome all /. Governor Richardson PERSON should the United States GPE negotiate directly one CARDINAL on one CARDINAL with North Korea GPE /? Yes it should /. Uh our policy so far is not working /. Uh what you have is North Korea GPE has quadrupled its enriched plutonium since two thousand and DATE two CARDINAL /.

Uh the six CARDINAL party talks are going nowhere /. We should talk directly to the North Koreans to discuss what is next /. They need to dismantle their nuclear weapons /. they need to destroy their missile capability /. The only way to do that in my judgment is face to face talks at a level of Christopher Hill PERSON /. He is a competent diplomat /. Uh the successes we 've had with the North Koreans NORP have been through direct engagement When I got some pilots out of North Korea GPE When Bob Gallucci PERSON negotiated the agreed framework /. Secretary Albright PERSON close to having an agreement on reducing or terminating their missiles /. What North Korea GPE is seeing right now is Iran GPE getting a nuclear reactor /. They see Iran GPE getting a nuclear fuel cycle that is assured economic incentives /.

On the other hand what they want to see is treated with respect direct talks with the United States GPE /. But also they want to see an effort by the United States GPE to give them the recognition that they feel they deserve /. I do n't believe they do /. They are a desolate isolated regime /. But right now our policy is not working /. It makes sense to talk directly with North Korea GPE /. But would n't the world then say oh I see /. you test a missile on the fourth of July DATE /. you get the US GPE attention /. and you bring them to the bargaining table /.

Our policy right now does not work /. Look where we are right now /. Uh Asia GPE is destabilized /. We are trying to outsource our foreign policy to China GPE /. I believe China GPE is not necessarily interested in helping us on North Korea GPE /. They do n't want to see a bunch of refugees go into their country /. I believe that China GPE is a competitor /. They control a lot of our debt /. Right now we do not have leverage over China GPE /. The best effort in my judgment is face to face talks /.

Hard negotiating /. Get that agreement that was uh signed in September DATE that North Korea GPE has not abided to /. A time table for North Korea GPE to dismantle its nuclear weapons /. Efforts to set up bench marks in exchange for that armistice agreement where we do n't attack North Korea GPE /. They get economic assistance /. But our objective should be firm /. To get them to dismantle their nuclear weapons /. The best way to do it is face to face talks /. If the President now changed his course wo n't the headlines be Bush PERSON blinks /? No /.

I believe the headlines would be Bush PERSON deals realistically with North Korea GPE /. He reverses a policy that is not working /. Ambassador Gallucci PERSON do you agree with that /? Just about entirely /. uh I have nothing against the idea of the six CARDINAL party talks something Nick PERSON pounded on /. Uh uh the virtue of having all these parties in Asia LOC engaged that 's /- it 's true /. it is their problem as well as ours /. But the fact is it has n't worked /. And to make the form more important than a substance To care more about whether we have six CARDINAL parties meeting together than whether we stop the accumulation of plutonium is absurd in my view /.

You 'd have some conditions /. you had said prior to the missile test that if they took that missile off the launch pad you 'd negotiate face to face /. Now that they 've launched it would you have any conditions before you went back to the table one CARDINAL on one /? This is kind of a rule I think that you really try hard not to negotiate with a gun or missile to your head /. And I think a decent interval now and some work at the United Nations ORG is the appropriate thing to do /. But I think we 're taking a view from thirty thousand feet CARDINAL right now /. what should the administration do /? It needs to find a way to get back to the negotiating table /. And the fact that you may get a headline like the President is reversing course as indeed we have in the case of Iran GPE that 's not so bad if you find you 're on the wrong course /. and we have been /.

Ashton Carter PERSON do you agree there should be one CARDINAL on one CARDINAL direct negotiations between North Korea GPE and the US /? No I actually think the six CARDINAL party talks is a perfectly appropriate forum including for us to speak directly to the North Koreans if others are at the table /. Let 's go back to the logic of the six CARDINAL party talks in the first ORDINAL place /. The reason to have everybody at the table with the North Koreans NORP is not only that they have a stake in the outcome as well but uh in dealing with North Korea GPE diplomacy has to have a coercive dimension /. And we do n't trade with North Korea GPE /. we do n't recognize North Korea GPE diplomatically /. uh there 's almost nothing we can do short of military action to apply pressure to North Korea GPE /. We 're capable of military action /. and it 's important that that be an ingredient of course in diplomacy /.

But the real levers on Kim Jong - Il PERSON are the Chinese NORP and the South Koreans /. It is they who essentially support the regime economically and politically /. But makes sense to have them at the table /. The six CARDINAL party talks I totally agree with my colleagues here have produced nothing so far except a quadrupling of the amount of plutonium as ambassador Richardson PERSON said um in North Korean NORP hands and now missile launches /. So they 've been running wild for three years DATE or so /. Um the reason for that /- there 's a lot of blame to go around /. you have to start with the North Koreans and their own intransigence /. The Chinese NORP and the South Koreans have not done everything that they should /. uh they 've shown the carrots /.

they 've been unwilling to show the sticks that they can also wield /. I think on our side um it matters less who else is at the table than that we have our own wits about us as we sit down with the North Koreans NORP /. And our government I believe has been divided over the last few years DATE as the six CARDINAL party talks between two CARDINAL camps /. One CARDINAL camp which believes that we have to give diplomacy a try and is earnest about pursuing diplomacy with North Korea GPE /. But there 's another camp uh in this country and I think represented in the government that believes that negotiating with the North Koreans NORP is a fools game or is even immoral because of the nature of the regime /. I do n't agree with that view because I think it 's more immoral to let North Korea GPE go nuclear than to try to reach a deal with North Korea GPE /. But we have been of two CARDINAL minds /. and therefore I do n't think we at the table has been as effective as we might have been /. you showed some of that ambivalence in the earlier part of your segment where you see the US GPE government saying one CARDINAL thing at one CARDINAL time and another thing at the other times /. Though it 's important that we get our story straight /.

and that 's more important than who else is at the table /. You had advocated several weeks ago DATE a preemptive military strike on the missile that was about to be tested /. Many criticize that as belligerent /. and perhaps could even trigger a North Korea GPE response against South Korea GPE or against Japan GPE /. who knows /. In hindsight do you still stand by that preemptive military strike /? Well I do /. and I want to put that in some context /. By the way I would say we should have that same position today That is if the North Koreans go out to the launch pad and erect that missile and prepare to launch it we can destroy that uh before they can do it /. To do so would be a very limited military action a single bomb a single cruise missile /.

the north Koreans are n't going to start a war in response uh to that kind of action /. And to those that think that 's too much I can only say where are you going to draw a line in the sand with North Korea GPE /? At some point we have to draw a line in the sand and defend it /. We say things are intolerable /. we say they 're unacceptable /. and then we tolerate and accept /. former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry PERSON and I thought long and hard about this /. and we thought that this was a relatively nonprovocative way to draw a line in the sand with North Koreans NORP /. Now I have to emphasize there 's risk in inaction also /. you may say there 's risk in this action /.

but I have to emphasize there 's risk in inaction as well letting North Korea GPE go nuclear /. Governor Richardson PERSON well how do you think the North Koreans NORP would react if we took out their test missile /? Well I respectfully disagree with Assistant Secretary Carter PERSON there /. But at least he 's got a new idea which the administration does not put forth /. I think if we are seriously attacked or threatened , that missile which was a test was geared to the United States GPE or to our allies we have allied responsibilities with South Korea GPE or Japan GPE /. /. Uh you do take that step /. but the fact is that you risk uh the uh North Koreans NORP shooting missiles at South Korea GPE /. and we 've got thirty seven thousand CARDINAL American NORP forces at the DMZ /. Uh but Tim PERSON I think another reason for the face to face talks is that there 're two CARDINAL issues that are separate from the six CARDINAL party talks that are a serious grievance in our relationship /.

one CARDINAL is the fact that we have frozen financial assets of the North Koreans NORP /. I believe rightly so /. but that is a separate bilateral issue /. The second ORDINAL is our objection to dealing with North Koreans NORP ' request for a light water reactor Which I believe has bogged down the six CARDINAL party talks /. Which by the way I believe you could have a separate bilateral face to face negotiation with the United States GPE and also continue the efforts with the six CARDINAL party talks because it is the South Koreans and the Japanese NORP that are providing financial and fuel incentives /. So you ca n't cut them out /. but I think it 's essential to have face to *face private bilateral talks between United States PERCENT and North Korea GPE /. But in the end it 's a judgment of North Korean NORP intentions /. You 'd been there five CARDINAL times /. you know them /.

and yet a few weeks DATE before the missile launch you said I do n't think they 're going to test /. And they did /. No Tim PERSON I said I believe that they were going to test /. I did say that /. And what I sense in my negotiations in dealing with North Koreans NORP /- You said as days go by I do n't believe they 're going to do it /. But early on I said that they did on CBS ORG /. Uh my point is that when you deal with North Korea GPE you 're not dealing with individuals like you and me /. Do n't believe in compromise /. they believe in their only way or the highway /.

Their view is that their cause is right /. and they 're going to wait you out /. So they 're totally unpredictable /. and I believe the only way to deal with them and we have shown that effectively in past dealings with the Clinton Administration is direct engagement To get them to curb their nuclear weapons as Bob Gallucci PERSON did /. Secretary Albright PERSON almost got a missile agreement /. Uh Jimmy Carter PERSON got uh an agreement which was later violated regrettably with the father Kim Jong - Il PERSON /. My point is that face to face discussions with the United States GPE directly I believe is a precursor /. the continuation of the six CARDINAL party talks is the best way to go /. But do they keep their word /? Here 's Madeline Albright PERSON toasting Kim Jong - Il PERSON in North Korea GPE October DATE of two thousand DATE /.

She appeared on this program four years later DATE /. and this was our exchange /. But did n't North Korea GPE develop a nuclear bomb on Bill Clinton 's PERSON watch /? No what they were doing uh as it turns out , they were cheating /. and the reason that you have arms control agreements is that you do n't make them with your friends , you make them with your enemies /. and it is the process that is required to hold uh countries accountable /. Ambassador Gallucci PERSON you negotiated that ninety four CARDINAL agreement /. The North Koreans NORP stopped processing in one CARDINAL plant if you will /. but we later found out that at the same time they were making uranium in another plant /.

Not actually /. No that 's not what we found out /. What happened was we did do a deal /. We did stop a uh plutonium based pro-nuclear weapons program /. We made sure that eight thousand fuel rods containing around thirty kilograms enough for five CARDINAL nuclear weapons worth of plutonium stayed in a storage pond /. And the deal would have had the North Koreans end their nuclear weapons program /. We think they started cheating in the late nineties by getting some gas centrifuge equipment from Pakistan GPE /. We do n't know a lot about that where it is whether the equipment has been put together /. We think over a period of time they 'll do what the Pakistanis NORP did , what the Iranians NORP appear to be wanting to do and put together this gas centrifuge /. But they never got there yet /.

Or we do n't think they 've gotten there yet /. But they broke their word /. They absolutely cheated /. There 's no question about that /. But really you ought to be clear here what 's happened /. There was a nuclear weapons program that was stopped /. Plutonium production was stopped /. Right /. And afterwards tragically I believe that agreement which locked them up was allowed to collapse /. And we find ourselves now with the North Koreans NORP accumulating plutonium a bomb 's worth a year DATE /.

And freed up that plutonium that was um controlled for that period of time /. And they say they 've used it to make bombs /. we 'd have to estimate about five CARDINAL more /. And with each passing day I would argue to you more important than that missile that Ash PERSON would take out on the gantry if it turns up again with each passing day we 're going to find ourselves more and more closer than we were before to the day where that material could be transferred or sold to Al - Queda Presenting ORG a threat far greater than the threat that is posed to us by nuclear weapons aboard ballistic missiles /. We can deter a country with ballistic missiles /. We know the return address /. We do /. But with a terrorist unconventional delivery your national missile defense will not be very good against United Airlines ORG or American Airlines Or ORG a bus or a truck /. And deterrents does n't work terribly well when an enemy values your death more than his life /. So no defense no deterrents /.

we need to lock up the nuclear program /. You would not care about the ballistic missile program if they did not have the nuclear weapons program /. But you can have all the agreements you want /. if they 're going to cheat what good are they /? Madeline Albright PERSON essentially had it correct in my view /. You make a deal /. Nobody did that deal in ninety four DATE thinking we were trusting North Koreans NORP /. We had some transparency a measure of it /. and you verify /. We caught them cheating /.

You might make another deal /. I think you should /. You ask the question you make another deal are you better off with the deal /. or are you better off without it /? If the answer to the former is yes you do the deal /. You do n't +ask I think the simple question have they fooled us before /. then do n't let them fool us again /. I do n't believe that 's the way you proceed in international affairs /. It asks a very tough question about the national security /. should we do this /?

Is it better for us /? Ask for more transparency /. Insist on it /. Be tough in the negotiations Not in the formality of whether it 's six CARDINAL parties or it 's bilateral /. Let me show you all two CARDINAL presidents Bill Clinton PERSON back in nineteen ninety three DATE George Bush PERSON ten years later DATE talking to the North Koreans NORP in effect /. And I 'm asking you to put your mind in place of a North Korean NORP watching this /. President Clinton PERSON President Bush PERSON /. North Korea GPE can not be allowed to develop a nuclear bomb /. We had to be very firm about it /.

We will not tolerate nuclear weapons in North Korea GPE /. Ash Carter PERSON both presidents making very firm resolved statements /. if you 're in North Korean NORP watching that knowing that you now have the potential of building eight CARDINAL nuclear bombs what are you thinking /? Well I 'm concerned that they 're thinking that we 're giving a new meaning to the word intolerable Because they keep doing things that we say are intolerable and then we tolerate them /. That 's why I think at some point you have to draw the line with the North Koreans NORP /. I do think and here I agree with both of the other gentlemen you have on the show who have shown it 's possible to reach an agreement with North Korea GPE and to get agreements that serve our interests The much maligned agreed framework as Bob Galluci PERSON pointed out without that agreed framework North Korea GPE by all the calculations of the experts would now have fifty CARDINAL nuclear weapons /. So we were better off with the agreement than without it /. It is possible to reach agreement with the North Koreans NORP But not when they see the kind of footage that you uh showed Which is uh uh uh Americans NORP drawing a line in the sand and then stepping back from that line And drawing a line in the sand and then stepping back /. I think our diplomacy has to have carrots in it but it has to stand somewhere /. and as I suggested earlier I think the missile tests are a good place to take a stand /.

Governor Richardson PERSON draw a line in the stand and step back /. the North Koreans NORP watch that /. they observe that /. they know what their own has been /. How do you have any strength in negotiating with people like that /? The North Koreans in my dealings with them they care more about form than they do substance /. In your earlier segment you showed president Bush PERSON calling him a tyrant /. But then later he called him Mister Kim Jong - Il PERSON /. I was in North Korea GPE when that happened /. The North Koreans NORP were delighted because they felt they 'd been treated with respect /.

They care deeply about protocol /. And this is another reason why I think for a relatively cheap price a face to face negotiation at the level of Chris Hill PERSON who again is very competent I believe would set the stage for a final agreement at the six CARDINAL party talks Which is essential Which is basically a good agreement /. In exchange for North Korea GPE dismantling its nuclear weapons its missiles they get an armistice agreement where they are not attacked /. they get food fuel energy assistance /. Security assurances we will not topple their regime /. That 's right /. yeah that 's right /. that 's in that September DATE agreement that Chris Hill PERSON negotiated /. My point is if it 's just going to be a face to face meeting that serves as a precursor that also deals with this frozen assets issue which has directly hit the North Korean NORP regime cause it controls the foreign expenditures of Kim Jong - Il PERSON and you deal with this light water reactor especially now after we 've promised it to Iran GPE and economic incentives to Iran GPE I think the timing is right for this new stage of direct negotiation /. Ambassador Galluci PERSON based on your experience do you believe the North Koreans would give up their nuclear program give up their nuclear bombs which they believe in their mind is an insurance policy against an American NORP invasion for economic assistance light water reactors /?

At the end of the day DATE I do n't know /. Um but that leaves me to conclude since I really do n't know that it 's a good idea to find out /. It 's a good idea it was in nineteen ninety four DATE to do a deal with the North LOC that required them to give up the program /. We did that /. and for a period of years DATE we were in a position to monitor that closely /. and they did give it up /. Indeed you can make an argument that while the centrifuge program with the Pakistanis NORP is clearly cheating was n't yet a genuine nuclear weapons program had n't produced anything and probably still has n't produced anything /. So you have the possibility if the North Koreans NORP are thinking the way they may be thinking that they need one CARDINAL or the other , they need either nuclear weapons to deter the United States GPE from regime change or they need a relationship with us that makes it unnecessary for them to have nuclear weapons /. The only way to find out whether they 'll ultimately give up those weapons is to do a deal /. We hear so much talk about Kim Jong - Il PERSON tyrant spoiled child /.

others have said madman /. you 've been in that country five CARDINAL times /. who is he /? What is he /? Well I 've never met him /. I met the number two CARDINAL in command /. He is the entire nation /. he is basically a cult of personality /. He runs everything /. He knows everything that 's happening /.

All power flows through him /. Uh what that causes unfortunately is an isolated North Korea GPE /. His people are in terrible shape economically /. I been there five CARDINAL times /. I think I 've seen one CARDINAL tractor /. I see people weak and drawn out /. they look like they need nourishment /. A lot of people are starving there /. They have human rights violations /. He is a mercurial character /.

But I think he 's crazy like a fox /. He is not somebody that is uh out of his mind /. he may be totally unpredictable isolated /. but he 's calculating /. and he 's used the Fourth of July LOC /. every time he feels he 's backed down he moves and does something irrational /. Uh he shoots missiles off /. he 's done it twice /. He cancels agreements /. he gets the nuclear inspectors out in two thousand and DATE two CARDINAL /.

This is the way he operates /. And what we should do is take advantage of his vulnerability /. He also is vulnerable in the sense that the country is weak economically /. it desperately needs an elimination of sanctions /. they need food electricity /. He 's realistic too I believe /. Bill Richardson PERSON Robert Gallucci PERSON Ashton Carter PERSON thank you all for a very sobering but important discussion /. Coming next , President Bush PERSON celebrated his sixtieth birthday this week DATE /. And thirty one years ago DATE on Meet The Press ORG then president Gerald Ford PERSON talked about being sixty and serving as president /.

Coming up right here on Meet The Press ORG /. And we 're back /. Two CARDINAL presidential birthdays this week DATE /. President Bush PERSON turned sixty CARDINAL last Thursday DATE /. And this Friday DATE former president Gerald Ford PERSON will be ninety three years old DATE /. Our thirty - eighth CARDINAL president talked about age health and the presidency right here thirty one years ago DATE /. Mr. President in the early days DATE of the republic the American NORP people took great chances on young men in the presidency /. Now here we are looking at seventy six CARDINAL /. and most of the leading candidates are old geezers like me in their sixties /.

Now we seem to have misplaced a generation here somewhere /. is the system out of phase /. what explains this /? I think age is a state of mind and obviously a state of health /. I 'm in the early sixties /. I feel as vigorous mentally and physically as I ever have at any time in my life /. I do n't think you should rule a person out just because they 're my particular age /. The other hand I do n't think uh you should rule out a younger person who by experience or intelligence or overall capability is a potential candidate /. I do n't think you should categorize people just by age bracket /. I believe you ought to look at the person how strong he is mentally and physically what is his experience and what his background is /.

that 's the criteria I would use /. happy birthday President Gerry Ford PERSON /. And also happy birthday to another American NORP legend /. thirty eight years ago DATE founded the special Olympics EVENT /. She turns eighty five tomorrow /. And we 'll be right back /. For more information on today DATE 's guest and topic log onto the viewer resources page of our website MTP dot MSNBC dot com /. That 's all for today DATE /. we 'll be back next week DATE at our regular time /. If it 's Sunday DATE it 's Meet the Press /.

So I work in that same beauty salon , I 'm chained to the old masquerade The lipstick , the shadow , the silicone : I follow my father 's trade - Leonard Cohen PERSON Michael Jackson PERSON may be another example of a celebrity distraction which , upon examination , reveals more about our society 's mortal condition than a tabloid could imagine . Almost certainly more than it would dare to describe . Yesterday DATE , Jackson GPE was ordered to close Neverland for having failed to pay the ranch 's 47 CARDINAL employees their salary or insurance since the end of 2005 DATE . Unfortunate for the unpaid staff and the abandoned llamas but no surprise .

He 's moved on since his aquittal , like Gary Glitter PERSON did after his 1999 DATE conviction , having departed last June DATE for a Bahrain " vacation " from which he 's yet to emerge . -LRB- " For the people working at Bahrain GPE 's malls , the person covered head to toe in a black veil , gloves and glasses appeared to be a rich , doting Saudi NORP mother .... But why would a woman wear a man 's shoes ? Why the bodyguards ? And why did the person 's fluid movements seem so familiar ? " -RRB- Last week 's DATE real Jackson PERSON story ran in the New York Daily News ORG , under the snappy banner " Creepy dad was root of all clan 's woe , singer sez . " The singer was brother Jermaine , and the claims based on the projected outline for his abandoned " tell - all " family story . Reading that Joseph was a nightmare of a father and sexually abusive towards his daughters is not exactly a " stop the presses " moment . What 's new is this : Jermaine even suggested his father may have set up Michael PERSON to be somehow victimized by older men .

He tells how his father would have Michael PERSON join in at late - night TIME hotel room meetings with " important business people , " and wondered whether " something happened " to Michael PERSON at those sessions . He said he sensed something was wrong because Michael PERSON would be sick for days DATE after . " What was Joseph doing ? " Jermaine wrote . This lifts the Jackson PERSON family horror show to a whole new order of dysfunction , one CARDINAL that sees parents network with power and trade their children for privilege . This should be a motif familiar to anyone acquainted with the literature of mind control and ritual abuse survivors : the father and first controller , passing his child - victim up the social ladder of abuse in return for status , protection and reward . All that 's missing is the element of occult terror . Or maybe not : " LaToya PERSON also described being awakened in the night by Joseph wearing a ' monster mask . ' " Perhaps we can take more from this than the suspicion that the Jackson PERSON clan had gotten with the program . Perhaps rather the point is that the program exploits pre-existing conditions for abuse which are more common than most suspect . -LRB- This is how I tend to think of Ponchatoula GPE 's Hosanna Church ORG . -RRB-

Yet we should n't discount the suspicion , either , particularly given some of Michael PERSON 's paranormal interests and peculiar associations . His close friendship with SPECTRA contactee and channeller of the Nine , Uri Geller PERSON , for one CARDINAL instance . -LRB- Jackson was Geller PERSON 's best man in 2001 DATE when he and his wife renewed his vows , the same year Geller PERSON is said to have been reactivated as a psychic spy . -RRB- His entourage including a " personal magician " for another . Even if you wanted to , you wo n't be reading Jermaine 's account now . Like every Jackson sibling who 's tried to break from Joe PERSON , he 's climbed down , returned to the fold and scrapped the book , apparently on the strength of Michael PERSON 's threats to sue . Previously , Michael PERSON 's given cause for family observers to attribute his grotesque body dysmorphia to a dread of resembling his father . Yet there they were at Jackson 's ORG trial last year DATE , hand in hand . In the big picture Michael Jackson PERSON means not very much . But his little picture may be more newsworthy than the news suggests .

good stuff . having departed last June DATE for a Bahrain " vacation " from which he 's yet to emerge . Actually , there have been reports for the past two days DATE of Jackson GPE back in California GPE . # NAME PERSON ? Wild wild stuff Jeff PERSON ! Disinformation Distraction Dis and Dat .. The netwerk is as sacred to the state as their mantra " My way or total annihilation . " Bait and switch sets the agenda . There is no such thing as an accident . It 's Saturday morning TIME , and the papers say a moon of Saturn is spewing life - giving water .... then I see the new R.I. GPE post is about the perrenial child Michael Jackson PERSON .

This day DATE is named for Saturn ... " ... it was foretold that one day a mighty son of Saturn would in turn overthrow him , and Saturn devoured all of his children when they were born to prevent this ... " Apparently Saturn is also intimately connected with Satan , Masonics , and Revelation 13 CARDINAL - you know , the " number of the beast " ... Nevermind - I need a cup of coffee ... I looked in vain for the Cheney PERSON " A hunting we will go " to post this out and paste but ... And on the subject of cowardice , consider this . In a recent hunting escapade , Dick Cheney PERSON accidentally shot one CARDINAL of his hunting comrades . There may have been negligence involved , but that is up to the local district attorney to decide .

But more importantly , I think , is the nature of the hunt . These were not wild birds . The birds were bred in captivity . They had spent their lives in pens , and then on hunting day , were released for the sole purpose of being killed by Dick Cheney PERSON and cohorts for pure sport as they flew into the open sky for their only moments of brief freedom . Whether you are an animal lover or not , there is something disgusting and degrading about this kind of hunt and something less than human about those who participate in it . The link " personal majician " is intrigueing . From Madsen PERSON via Boucher PERSON : Jackson PERSON 's stay at the Cedars PERSON was arranged through David Kuo PERSON , George W. Bush 's PERSON White House ORG director of the Office of Faith - based ORG Initiatives GPE . Kuo PERSON , a former CIA ORG employee ... had been Executive Director of the Center for Effective Compassion ORG , founded in 1995 DATE by Arianna Huffington PERSON ... Kuo PERSON also previously worked for the Christian Coalition ORG and Senator John Ashcroft PERSON .

There 's also some curious Neverland / Disneyland ORG connections to the " Mickey Mouse Club " children who are now stars , including Justin Timberlake PERSON -LRB- remember the star on Janet Jackson 's PERSON breast ? -RRB- and Brittany Spears PERSON , Christina Aguilera PERSON ... The piper walks into the mountain , still followed by the children , and the cave closes again ... Here is Boucher PERSON 's follow up to the " majician " link of Jeff PERSON 's . on the mark as always , jeff , but i thought you might cover chile 's inauguration of its first ORDINAL woman president today DATE instead ... maybe later as the story develops ? Jeff Boucher 's PERSON piece mentions how victims of sexual abuse often have childlike voices , almost as if their development was ' frozen ' around the time of their abuse . Jackson PERSON seems to be of this type . Or more perversely , fakes that he is : " I was always saying -LSB- to Jackson -RSB- people would n't think I was so crazy if they saw who the hell you really are , that you sit around , and you drink and you curse and you 're -LSB- expletive -RSB- funny and you have a bad mouth , and you do n't have that high voice all the time " -

Lisa Marie Presley PERSON , in an interview quoted in a WaPo ORG article written by Tina Brown PERSON : Michael Jackson 's PERSON False Front PERSON ? " David Geffen PERSON , be gone ! Steven Spielberg PERSON , be gone ! " The witch doctor cursing Michael Jackson 's PERSON enemies and blessing the tarnished King of Pop himself in a voodoo ritual in Switzerland GPE in the summer of 2000 DATE had promised that the 25 CARDINAL people on Jackson 's enemies list -LRB- would soon be dead -RRB- ... Jackson had ordered his then business adviser , Myung - Ho Lee PERSON , a U.S. GPE - educated Korean NORP lawyer based in Seoul GPE , to wire $ 150,000 MONEY to a bank in Mali GPE for a voodoo chief named Baba , who then had 42 CARDINAL cows ritually sacrificed for the ceremony . Jackson PERSON had already undergone a blood bath ... The pop star , who is said to be $ 240 million MONEY in debt , had paid six CARDINAL figures for a ritual cleansing using sheep blood to another voodoo doctor and a mysterious Egyptian NORP woman named Samia PERSON , who came to him with a letter of greeting from a high - ranking Saudi NORP prince , purportedly Nawaf Bin Abdulaziz Al - Saud PERSON , now the chief of intelligence of Saudi Arabia GPE ... http://www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/articles/050411roco03c hmm . According to that Vanity Fair ORG article , Jacko ORG and Uri Geller PERSON met through " that other fellow devotee of children 's charities Mohamed Fayed PERSON , the chairman of Harrods ORG in London GPE , who believes that the C.I.A. GPE and Prince Philip had Princess Diana PERSON and his son , Dodi , killed . "

Anonymous PERSON quoted , " Jackson PERSON 's stay at the Cedars PERSON was arranged through David Kuo PERSON ... " Hold on -- the Cedars PERSON is the headquarters of the Fellowship Foundation ORG , the creepy Christianoid cult with deep political connections . Here 's a bit of the original Madsen PERSON article that the Michael Jackson PERSON quote comes from : In 1976 DATE , the Fellowship ORG began looking for a permanent headquarters in Arlington GPE . It set its sights on the estate of George Mason IV PERSON , The Cedars , located at 2301 North Uhle Street FAC . Mason was one CARDINAL of the drafters of the Bill of Rights . The Fellowship , also known as the International Foundation ORG , bought the property from Charles Piluso PERSON . Although not much is known about Piluso PERSON , the Los Angeles Times ORG reported that Howard Hughes PERSON , the man with whom Fellowship ORG Senator Ralph Owen Brewster PERSON once sparred , also lived there . According to a senior Pentagon ORG official , the Cedars PERSON had been used as a CIA ORG safe house prior to the Fellowship 's purchase of the estate .

The Fellowship paid $ 1.5 million MONEY for the Cedars , the money coming from Tom Phillips PERSON , the CEO of Raytheon , and Ken Olsen PERSON , the CEO of Digital Equipment Corporation ORG . Sanford McDonnell PERSON of McDonnell Douglas Corporation ORG was another deep - pocketed supporter of the Fellowship through Full Gospel Business Men 's Fellowship International , an activity linked to Fellowship ORG core member Pat Robertson PERSON . Suffer PERSON the little children , eh ? If this is what power & wealth does to you , I 'm damn glad I have neither . You said , " Perhaps rather the point is that the program exploits pre-existing conditions for abuse which are more common than most suspect . " Could n't agree more . I think that pedophilia 's relative commonality is what really makes it frightening . My experience happened when I was 15 CARDINAL . A friend of mine met this guy who was twice our age & who was more than willing to buy us all the whiskey we could drink .

We were both enamored with Kerouac & Jim Morrison & ORG meeting strange characters & this guy definitely fit the bill . He was muscle for a Pittsburgh GPE madam named Tex Gill PERSON . She dressed like a man & ran most of the massage parlors in Pgh . He was into black magick & Crowley & booze & drugs & on & ORG on . So , one night , we 're at his apartment , drunk out of our minds , & my buddy passes out . I continue drinking . At one CARDINAL point , I glance at this older guy , & he is staring at my buddy as a line of drool runs down the cigarette in his mouth & drips on to the floor . I think , ' What the fuck ? '

but I 'm pretty goddamn wasted & reality is having a helluva time penetrating the fog in my head . He notices that I 'm kind of staring at him . He stands up , walks into the bedroom , & comes back with a porno mag . He drops it on the couch next to me . As he 's sitting down , he says , " See anything you like ? " & then he shoves his hand hard into my groin ..... .... & I broke his nose with my elbow . Make no mistake though , up till that point , the guy scared the shit out of me . But , lucky for me , my reaction was see red anger instead of cowering fear .

After i hit him , I jumped up , ran into his kitchen & grabbed a big old butcher knife , ran back into the room & proceeded to kick my buddy into consciousness & drag his comatose ass the hell out of there . Now , for me , the interesting part happened years later DATE . At the time , my buddy & I were selling things . My buddy had a real good supplier for these things but it was his secret . At one CARDINAL point , my buddy could n't pick up the shipment so I had to go . Before I left , he had to explain to me that his supplier was none other than Freddie Feelup PERSON . I decided to go . He was now closer to 40 & just a hollow shell of his former self . Friendless , his only company being neighborhood teens looking to party . He kept one room empty except for 4 CARDINAL black candles in each of its corners .

he would read curses aimed at people who pissed him off . Really pathetic . About a year later DATE , a few of those teens took an intense dislike to Freddie & ORG the beat him to to death . I ca n't imagine why . Can you ? I apologize for continuing my ramble but ... , ... I do n't know how you folks would classify pedophilia . Maybe a 30 year old man & a 15 year old boy does n't qualify . I wonder about that myself , but I have to say that when I was 30 , I was n't plying 15 year old DATE girls with booze & copping feels . I 'll shut up now .

Speaking of Pat Robertson - I PERSON remembered something about him being linked with Victor Bout PERSON and the UAE two CARDINAL - step currently going on : Bout was Liberian NORP dictator Charles Taylor 's PERSON primary arms and diamond smuggler ... Taylor PERSON , who is now in exile in Nigeria GPE , was a business partner with Christian Coalition ORG founder Pat Robertson PERSON ... in a Cayman Islands front company called Freedom Gold , Ltd ORG . In fact , Freedom Gold was headquartered at Robertson 's ORG CBN offices in Virginia Beach GPE , Virginia GPE . Robertson ORG 's African NORP interests also crossed paths with Bout ORG 's in another country -- the former Zaire GPE . Robertson ORG 's African Development Company ORG used the cover of Robertson PERSON 's tax - exempt " Operation Blessing " WORK_OF_ART to ferry conflict diamonds out of civil war - ravaged Zaire GPE -LRB- now Congo GPE -RRB- . One CARDINAL of Bout ORG 's many assets is New Millennium Air Company ORG of Gambia GPE . The Director of this firm is " Baba Jobe PERSON " . -LRB- hmmm -

" Baba " ... -RRB- http://www.analystnewspaper.com/ameu_scam_feb21.html http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/ http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/wanted/2005/1212ties.htm My question is , when is a victim guilty of abuse ? Jackson PERSON is definitely a mind - control , SRA victim . He 's programmed . Neverland sounds like a cryptic command from MKULTRA Wizard of Oz programming . The bizarre from black - to - white and physical transformation must be the result of biotech advances . If he does abuse ' his ' children , is he ' guilty ' as such if he is programmed ?

I suspect he is a brilliant cover or red - herring used as a shield by very powerful forces , responsible for God - knows - what at his now - abandoned ranch . It 's very effective , as many ' feel ' that whilst MJ is naive he 's not capable of the evil associated with pedophile activity . This may not be the case , as the public ' persona ' is merely an ' alter ' personality and he may have many other ' personalities ' which are dark . Then comes the question whether his programmers were programmed themselves . If so , then they are all guilty of such abuse , whilst being innocent at the same time ! As most abuse is generational , the whole mind - control subject really has to be brought out in the open . The very technology and tools used on the mind which harm can then be used to heal . Brr , Pied Piper . I remember being spooked by that story as a kid .

Heck PERSON of a story to tell children . Talking about strange coincidences ... I was trying to write a science fiction story a while back involving Star Gate FAC type research . I was looking for a cool name for an undercover X-Files type military - occult agency . Thought of ' SPECTRE ' but that seemed too James Bondish PERSON , and modified it to ' SPECTRA ' . Thinking rainbow - type symbology . Then I find out that ' SPECTRA ' is actually a name with significance in the community . What the ... ... of course , I did read a lot of weird stuff in passing as a kid , it 's certainly possible that I came across it and forgot . I was n't consciously aware of it , certainly .

It 's the most disappointingly *cheesy* 1960s DATE sci - fi kind of name for an astral entity to use , that 's for sure . I never did write that story . Is n't Michael Jackson PERSON , and the entire Jackson PERSON clan , Jehovah 's Witness ? There was no mention made of this in either the main post or comments .... It would seem to me that their must be some relationship between that cult organization and all the " high weirdness " going on .... no ? .... and it is a cult . FBI finally releases report on missing children . Agency ORG unveils surprising statistics : about one - third CARDINAL of lost kids are black -- AP ORG

Since 1985 DATE nearly 13 million children missing -LRB- those reported -RRB- . An average of 615,874 CARDINAL per year since 1985 DATE . 791,687 CARDINAL in 1995 DATE alone . This is an extraordinary group here . I appreciate your candor and your capacity to build a knowledge base with each contributor adding to the thread that moves me in a sonambulant noiseless rush toward the truth . We are living the dieing and that is just as productive and rewarding as any other dimension of spirit that I have experienced If there is just one thing that disappoints me it is that all of the posters here prefer to be anonymous . It would be wise for you to " be " yourself . I tried to find emails for any that list a profile or website , but none " NONE " of you are out there .

Contact me at my profile email should you care to disclose yourself . I would like to invite you to participate in FSHOD if that is not too much to ask . maybe we remain anonymous in preparation for the future . I 'm surprised I have n't heard this mentioned anywhere before , as it ties in perfectly with Jeff PERSON 's Bizarro Jacko Tabloid post : In an interview with Blender -LRB- ca n't remember what issue , but Janet PERSON 's on the cover -RRB- , Janet PERSON talks at length about having mulitiple personalities . I ca n't remember all the details , but there 's Janet PERSON , the normal pop star , and among others -LRB- and perhaps the most notable in this context -RRB- one she calls " Strawberry , " who is geared towards explicit sexual activities . As I understand , this is a classic alters description . A Real MAN Would At Least Let A Former Board Member Be Able TO READ The Reason He Had Been Banned , But , I FORGOT I Was Dealing With A Coward ! antiaristo will be disappointed , or HAS HE ALREADY BEEN BANNED , TOO ORG ??? A COWARD DIES A THOUSAND DEATHS . A HERO DIES BUT ONCE !!!!!!!!

Saint Alexander PERSON the Foolish NORP , circa Third Millennium DATE , a.D . Janet Jackson PERSON ; " Strawberry Bounce PERSON " lyrics : Bump the beat Just watch the way I pump it The way I work it 's gon na keep you cumin' Do a dance that 's so sensual I 'ma make you Lose Control Do n't trip You know you wan na watch this I 'm a pro you wo n't be disappointed

Gon na leave you beggin' for more I 'ma make you Lose Control Glad someone finally mentioned Janet PERSON . I think the practice of black magic is something she and her brother have in common . One CARDINAL mus n't forget her now infamous superbowl " nipple " stunt . Rather than the ridiculous accident censors tried to make it out to be , I think it has to be recognized as a planned , purposeful piece of black magic , perpetraited literally in front of the world , on a very alchemically significant day and time -LRB- goes way beyond a ' publicity stunt , does n't it ? ' -RRB- A friend even suggests that during her much earlier ' Rythm Nation ' period , in which she dons a black uniform and uses strange , synchopated hand movements in her video dance routine , that that too , is a kind of twilight language , intended on sending a specific message , in order to have a desired effect . It 's possible that jacksons have been using the occult arts for a long , long time . I 'd love to hear someone else 's thoughts on this -

Here 's a link to just a wee bit more about Jackson PERSON and her alleged MPD - http://dave.typepad.com/dave/2004/06/janet_jacksons_.html I posted above that The Cedars , where Michael Jackson PERSON was mentioned as having stayed for a time , was the center of the Fellowship Foundation ORG . I just ran across the Fellowship Foundation ORG again , when looking for something to explain the anomalous situation of recently - disgraced Republican NORP shoplifter Claude A. Allen PERSON . The quote below is from the LaRouchies -- and thus , as always , not to be considered 100 % PERCENT reliable -- but in this case it fits in so well with the ongoing discussion that I 'm tentatively inclined to trust it : DeLay PERSON 's career and power became at the same time a central project for all three CARDINAL of the shadow partners , Grover Norquist PERSON , Jack Abramoff PERSON and Ralph Reed PERSON . DeLay PERSON was by no means a random point of interest . Tom DeLay PERSON staggered into Washington GPE as a freshman Congressman PERSON in 1984 DATE , a terrible drunk , his life dissolving .

Rep. Frank Wolf PERSON -LRB- R - Va. -RRB- approached him with a road to salvation . He reportedly showed DeLay PERSON a videotape that made him weep . Tom DeLay PERSON then radically changed his life , turning his soul over to higher powers . But by all reliable accounts , DeLay PERSON became a much nastier , a fearsomely un-Christian individual . Frank Wolf PERSON represented an old " black operations " soul - robbing agency known as the Fellowship Foundation ORG . Practicing secrecy on about the same level as the National Security Agency ORG , the Fellowship ORG does conduct one CARDINAL public function -- it runs the huge annual Congressional / Presidential Prayer Breakfast ORG in Washington GPE , with similar events managed inside the Pentagon FAC and at other government and military sites . The Fellowship Foundation ORG -LRB- earlier called International Christian Leadership ORG and a succession of cover names -RRB- was created before World War II EVENT by the organization of the pro-Nazi Frank Buchman PERSON . Sen. H. Alexander PERSON Smith PERSON -LRB- R - N.J. -RRB- , Buchman PERSON 's lieutenant who in 1940 DATE had called for a joint world dictatorship of the United States GPE , Britain GPE , and Nazi Germany GPE , brought the Fellowship ORG into acceptance in Washington GPE . In the 1950s DATE , the group was sponsored by former Nazi NORP SS officer , Holland GPE 's Prince Bernhard PERSON , and the Dutch NORP royal family .

The Fellowship runs a house near the U.S. Capitol , where Congressmen and Senators , who are members , live . For example , Sen. Sam Brownback PERSON -LRB- R - Kans. -RRB- , the delirious End - Timer , has lived in the cult 's house in Washington GPE . Raytheon CEO Tom Phillips PERSON and other figures in the military - industrial complex , pay the bills . The Fellowship specializes in taking over the lives of potentially powerful individuals who have become somehow ruined , and promising them dominion in the world if they will play along . Watergate EVENT dirty - trickster Charles Colson PERSON , when he was on his way to prison and suddenly powerless , was recruited , and turned his life over to the Fellowship . Colson 's Prison Fellowship Ministries is a subordinate unit of the cult , with its tentacles in most prisons in the United States GPE . After Tom DeLay PERSON was zapped , Charles Colson PERSON became DeLay PERSON 's personal guru . Colson 's militancy for the End - Times ORG war on Muslims NORP has made him a congenial companion to Jack Abramoff PERSON in their keeping of DeLay -- Abramoff has repeatedly led Tom PERSON to Israel GPE to call for all - out war against the Arabs NORP . And Christian Coalition PERSON co-founder Pat Robertson PERSON was himself a product of the Fellowship magic . Robertson PERSON was the good - for - nothing playboy son of Sen. A. Willis Robertson PERSON -LRB- R - Va. -RRB- , the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee ORG .

Pat PERSON began speaking in tongues and uttering prophecies under the guidance of Harald Bredesen PERSON , a master training agent of the Fellowship ORG group , who had proved himself to the highest circles of British NORP intelligence . Pat Robertson PERSON started off as assistant pastor to Bredesen PERSON , whose intelligence partners , the Full Gospel Businessmen 's ORG Fellowship , raised the money to expand Robertson PERSON 's and Bredesen PERSON 's Virginia GPE - based Christian Broadcasting Network ORG -LRB- CBN -RRB- toward global power status . The sentence I put in boldface is *extremely* interesting . Was n't there a Michael Jackson PERSON video where he was envisioning himself as ruler of the world or some such ? to anonymous 9:30 TIME re cults : " The reason fear can arise so strongly is that you already have a very strong experience of being brainwashed and used in cultish behavior . This cult is called society and its ' cult - ure ' gives rise to suffering . If you look closely , everything that is associated with cult behavior can lisewise be found in society 's behavior . The same means of control are used : the constant reinforcement that you are helpless without society , that you can not survive without obeying its rules and that you will go to hell if you do n't obey the tenets of its religion . " -- Gangaji

this site monitors Janet Jackson PERSON weight ! http://www.egotastic.com/entertainment/celebrities/janet-jackson/janet-jackson-is-too-fat-to-sing Anonymous One PERSON , I recall reading somewhere that Lisa Marie PERSON was a member of L.Ron 's cult . You will notice that Michael PERSON 's real troubles started after he suied Sony ORG chief Tommy Mattola PERSON , who was heard to say " he 'll live to regret the day " . Do n't ever think of fucken with the evil bastards in the Music biz , later . Here 's a description of that Michael Jackson PERSON item I was remembering : By the time the release of 1995 DATE 's HIStory album -- a double album of greatest hits and new tracks -- approached , Michael PERSON had fully realized a new perception of himself , one that was truly larger than life . HIStory was hyped with a four - minute TIME teaser video . This extravagant production begins with a colossal army goose - stepping through a European NORP city in crisp , tan uniforms , waving red flags and sporting red - and - black insignias . Military music pounds .

Crowds swell at the sidelines , screaming and crying . The implication seems to be these men represent Nazis . But then , their leader is revealed to be Michael PERSON , marching right up front . When peasant workers break free to touch Michael PERSON , they are immediately swallowed by soldiers . Suddenly , it is night , and a tarp - covered , skyscraper - sized structure looms over the poor nation as choppers spray spotlights across it . Brainwashed fans scream , salute with one CARDINAL arm and light candles with religious zeal . Signs proclaiming " King of Pop , " a title Michael PERSON disavowed to Oprah ORG only two years earlier DATE , are everywhere , emphasizing the word " King . " Finally , the tarp drops , and it is , of course , a gargantuan , bronze statue of Michael PERSON , fists clenched defiantly , his star insignia prominent , yet his face still somehow child - like and unthreatening . The video is a highly disturbing piece of work .

His bloated sense of importance is not only chilling , it is threatening . Suddenly , Michael PERSON 's perfect world of Oz / Neverland ORG is forced to be compared with an Aryan Nation , one CARDINAL that substitutes children for Hitler 's master race . Large image of the Michael Jackson PERSON HIStory statue . There is some sort of an emblem with a star on his shoulder , but it 's at an angle and not easy to make out clearly . " ... a haughty spirit goeth before a fall . " BTW - and off topic : Check out this superb psyop image . Jeff PERSON , I do n't think even you could do better than this : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11800917/ Remember who Janet PERSON shared the stage with at the Superbowl GPE ?

Yes , you remember correctly : former Mousketeer Justin Timberlake ORG . Hmmm . The plot thickens . JW's and child abuse . http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/live_forums/2124808.stm BTW Jeff - I PERSON 'd caught the Geller / Jackson connection a while back and posted on the discussion board . Fascinating how this all seems to be inter-related . hmmm ... in March 2003 DATE Jackson distraction - o - mania was part of the media smokescreen that led up the Iraq war ... and now Fox ORG news and other rabid - right media outlets have once again taken to whipping on Jackson ...

-LRB- like any sane people really care about what the hell MJ is doing any more . -RRB- A signs of another impending misadventure in the mideast ? And what 's with Uri Geller 's PERSON links to MJ ? Anyone else smell a whiff of that whole Prophet Yahweh PERSON sideshow from awhile back ? trivial , but here 's stargods ' comprehensive analysis of jacko : regarding the JW reference . I do n't think we need see a plot in every wood pile . The JW considers itself THE kingdom of God on earth . -LRB- ' Kindom Hall PERSON ' -RRB- So it is only to be expected that they do not see a reason to run to and report everything to the government . The same goes for the Roman Catholic Church ORG .

But the RCC has had a widespread problem with this regard , doubltlessly because their policy / doctrine of a celibate priesthood simply attracts these deviants . I doubt any such problem exist on the same proportionate scale in the JW heirarchy . Besides that , ca n't you see the embedded mind control in that article , as well as all general media output . The Message Is : " Big Brother must be informed ! Only Big Brother can manage society ! " See , it 's the Hegelian NORP dialectic at work . Eveyone needs to sharpen their awareness of this shit . As long as Big Brother is the answer for everything , Big Brother will BE everything . -LRB- If people do n't want their kids pederastized , but yet they entrust them to ' guys in gowns ' I just wonder what the hell are they thinking anyway ? -RRB- I 'd watch the Peter Pan PERSON speculations , unless you know what versions you are discussing and can differentiate between them accurately .

Some of the assumptions I 've seen -LRB- such as a couple made by Tim Boucher PERSON and Fantastic Planet in last year 's DATE postings linked here -RRB- may have looked like they worked to support their thesis , but in actuality have either a tenuous or no connection to the core Peter Pan PERSON mythos . Do n't make up things like Peter abducting children that you ca n't substantiate . Peter Pan PERSON was a work in progress for JM Barrie ORG , who kept tinkering with it over the years DATE . To understand what it actually means to Michael Jackson PERSON and what you might speculate he is enacting , you have to know where on the continuum of Peter Pans his internalized Peter -LRB- no , not THAT kind of peter -RRB- lies . Novel , play ? Musical , cartoon ? Shadow of a shadow of a remembered story ? In one CARDINAL of the oldest versions , Peter Pan PERSON in Kensington Gardens GPE -LRB- extracted from The Little White Bird -RRB- , is only a week old DATE . He escaped from his home when he was seven days old because he remembered how he could fly when he was a bird before he was a human , and that wildness is still in him , as it is with all children .

Barrie 's only cryptic instructions on character development to Nina Boucicault PERSON , the first ORDINAL actress to play Peter , was that she was to remember that Peter is a bird , and is one day old . In Kensington Gardens GPE he watches out for children who have fallen un-noticed out of their perambulators . If a bad fairy finds them , or they perish from the cold an dark overnight in the park , Peter digs them graves and makes them headstones . In Peter and Wendy PERSON , the Lost Boys are the ones who fall out of their perambulators when their nurse is not looking . If they are not claimed in seven days DATE , " they are sent far away to the Neverland to defray expenses . " A far cry from the stealing of children . Peter and the Lost Boys crave a mother to tell them stories . It 's ironic that while their own lives are far more exotic than the fairy tales Wendy PERSON tells , it 's those fictions that they want , told by a mother . Barrie PERSON says quite explicitly in Peter and Wendy PERSON that it is Wendy PERSON who does the tempting to keep Peter with her , not the other way around .

It is she who asks if Michael PERSON and John could come too . If those of you with the abduction theory would like to give specific quotes and information on where it is shown that Peter abducted the children , please do . But I think you are making it up from a version that does n't exist in reality , or that ca n't be tied to Michael Jackson PERSON . We do n't gain better understanding of the inner workings of Michael Jackson PERSON by distorting the material on which we purportedly base our theories . Jeff - I PERSON just have to say that I love the Rigorous Intuition Live365 channel . I 've been listening to it to the last couple of days and just bought Dylan PERSON 's ' Oh Mercy ' . How does the copyright thing work on a Live365 stream ? Avalon , can you recommend a good work of commentary and analysis on JM Barrie 's works ? - Sepka the Space Weasel Was Michael Jackson PERSON influenced by Bob Fosse 's PERSON " Snake in the grass " character from the 1974 DATE movie The Little Prince ?

Has anyone else seen this scene ? Bob Fosse 's PERSON snake looks and moves would be imitated -LRB- and made more popular -RRB- years later DATE by the King of Pop , Michael Jackson PERSON . View the video here : http://youtube.com/watch?v=L8mJsgPj1iU About the JW thing , I work with a couple of them -LRB- BTW , some of the most respectable people I know . Which is why I decided to ask ... -RRB- , and I had a chance to ask them about MJ and the child abuse , if they knew anything . About MJ they said , he is definately not a JW , despite what he says . Provocative lyrics and grabbing ones crotch in public , does n't fit with their defination of ' Christian ' . They said all they knew was that his mother -LRB- who apparently is still a member -RRB- took him to their church as a kid . The father apparently had little or no involvement at all .

As for the child abuse , I have to agree with the post above , you can find abuse and ' sick ' individuals in ANY organization , but you have too look at the proportion to the rest of society . One CARDINAL of my friends is an ' elder ' -LRB- soething like a ' local church leader ' -RRB- , but he also said their instructions say that if they hear of any abuse they are to follow local laws , which usually requires them to inform the police ASAP . And if the abuse is at all serious to report it to the police regardless . Though i do n't agree with all of their beliefs , I know these guys well enough to call them friends . So in their respect , after reading some of the other comments , I decided to listen to their side before passing judgement . We should ALL be careful not to pass judgement on ENTIRE groups of people based on the apparent actions of a few . That is what Hitler tried to do . With thiking like that , even if we got rid of the evil elite , a new set of ' evil elite ' would rise again in their place .

That seems to be the nature of man , though . We have all got to do what we can without needlessly attacking the innocent . Remember , group hatred only plays into their hands , be it racial , religious , or class . Sepka , the two CARDINAL reference books I have on Peter Pan PERSON are : Fifty Years DATE of Peter Pan PERSON , Roger Lancelyn Green PERSON , pub. by Peter Davies PERSON , London GPE , 1954 DATE . It 's pretty scarce at this point , though you might be able to find a copy to read through inter-library loan . The Peter Pan Chronicles PERSON , Bruce K. Hanson PERSON , Birch Lane Press ORG , NY ORG , 1993 DATE I have n't really delved into Barrie 's psyche from the biographical end , it 's Peter and Wendy PERSON as an extraordinary piece of writing that has always fascinated me . ... and if you listen to " My Way " by sinatra , backwards , the real answer will be revealed . http://stargods.org/MasonicMichaelJackson.htm Uri Geller PERSON was one CARDINAL of MJ 's handlers apparently .

The wave of continuous rain last week DATE led to the collapse of the roof of the Fourth Aramco Primary School for Girls ORG in low income .. Fortunately , the school had no students in it during the collapse . The students did not take the monthly DATE exam at the time , while the administration offered a one - day DATE vacation to allow for a search for another school . The students were transferred to a governmental school until the Aramco School ORG could be repaired . The student " L. H. PERSON " says , " The situation is totally different . We study in the prayer area of the governmental school , and we have been merged with two CARDINAL other classes . " The funniest thing about this issue is that they converted the small storage room into a cafeteria . The student " M. M. PERSON " says , " I hope we can go back to our school again , and that the roof wo n't fall on us again . " On the other hand , teacher " M. A. PERSON " says , " The school principal was devastated .

She burst into tears and could not do anything . " A source at Girls ' Education ORG in Al Quataif GPE said the collapse resulted from rainwater accumulation . It is worth mentioning that there has been a total media blackout by related authorities . Many confusing questions have been taxing my mind for years DATE about Egypt GPE and its people . Are they really as miserable as we see them , or are our eyes deceiving us ? Are the horrible statistics we read on the unemployment rates and the dangerous diseases that consume the liver , kidneys , and the entire body of the Egyptian NORP real , or a fabrication of the nice governor ? Is the waste of Egypt GPE 's wealth from the seventies until today DATE a reality , or an illusion ? How did Egypt GPE 's production of long - fiber cotton , the best in the world , drop from 12 million tons QUANTITY to just four tons ? How was almost all the public sector sold , and where is its price ?

How did the Egyptian NORP become the cheapest human being on the surface of the earth ? Is this reasonable ? Can we believe all this and believe at the same time that the people are still silent ? What are these Egyptian people ? How are they ? How do they think ? Why are they silent ? Are they that cowardly ? I do not stray far from the truth if I say that I have read a lot in sociology , from the Introduction of its founder , Ibn Khaldoun PERSON , passing by Gamal Hemdan PERSON -LRB- the best man to describe Egypt GPE lately -RRB- , to the last student in the sociology department - the university of the poor , who are injured with knives and sticks and surrounded by the gangs of national sadness . Not all that has been written of course , but what concerns us in guarded Egypt -LRB- I do not know where this guarding is ?! -RRB- , because I want to understand the Egyptian NORP personality , and why it is silent in spite of all its suffering from injustice , suppression , starvation , and humiliation , and , of course , all this was accompanied by stops at our ancient and modern history .

Today I watched the news promoted by the American NORP , Zionist NORP , and Arab NORP -LRB- Zionistic -RRB- media about the meetings currently being held between the American NORP agents in Jordan GPE , Saudi Arabia GPE , Iran GPE , and Egypt GPE . Except for Sheikh al - Dari PERSON , the people that appeared at the meetings with them were mostly agents of the occupier who came with him , using them to slaughter our people and families . A number of them did not visit Iraq GPE since their contract with the American NORP intelligence service expired after the criminal Allawi PERSON fled two years ago DATE in the wake of his failure to achieve victory over the Iranian NORP agents . As for Sheikh al - Dari PERSON ... the issuing of a warrant for his arrest was an important part of the game to keep him outside Iraq GPE to facilitate contacting him -LRB- by coersion -RRB- and with not many options . But Sheikh al - Dari PERSON will not swallow the bait easily .. He is aware of what is being plotted .. and that Bush PERSON has not yet lost hope in the possibility of winning a political round which would prolong the life of his troops in Iraq GPE .. Therefore it is the duty of Sheikh al - Dari PERSON to present the conditions of resistance - victorious with God 's permission - because it is what will forge victory with the blood and lives of its youth and people . Since the outbreak of the Iranian Revolution in the year 1979 DATE and the overthrow of the Shah 's regime , and in spite of the power he enjoyed and the privilege he had with the US GPE and Western NORP countries , and in spite of the presence of the strongest intelligence service in the region -LRB- the SAVAK Agency -RRB- , the Iranian NORP public was able to overthrow the government through the leadership of the Mullahs -LRB- religious men -RRB- without action from the super powers which had supported the Shah 's regime .

This raises many questions . At the same time that the Mullahs came to power in Iran GPE , another revolution erupted , but with a different course . It took place in Afghanistan GPE in 1979 DATE under the leadership of a few people led by the Engineer Gulbuddin Hekmatyar ORG and Sheikh Abdul Rabb PERSON Rasoul Sayyaf . But the general course of jihad and the influx of mujahideen in large numbers started in 1986 DATE after the heroic Ansar battle in Jagi GPE . While the Arab NORP and Western NORP governments were busy with the issue of repelling Soviet NORP occupation and communist encroachment , and with the war between Iraq GPE and Iran GPE , many overlooked a new development that was emerging on the ground , namely the orientation of Shiites NORP in the Gulf LOC region towards arms training in Iran GPE , with the Revolutionary Guards ORG at the time of the Iraqi NORP - Iranian war , as well as in Lebanon GPE , with Hezbollah ORG -LRB- in the nineties -RRB- . However , the general orientation of the Shiites NORP towards regular and intensive training actually started in the early nineties . Recently published Saudi NORP studies warned that kohl is harmful to women 's eyes and can lead to loss of sight , especially the types common in Arab NORP and Gulf LOC countries because they contain high levels of lead . Protecting the eyes against blindness begins with measures to look after the eyes , from regular eye tests by a specialist doctor , to knowing the necessary precautions to avoid eye injuries and first ORDINAL aid methods should an injury occur and the importance of not applying the kohl commonly used in the Kingdom GPE and also not to apply any other folk remedies on the eyes . With regard to kohl and its effect on the eyes , doctors at King Faisal Specialist Hospital ORG have found that the percentage of lead in random samples of kohl of the kind sold at perfumeries and available in shops , especially Indian NORP brands , is between 85 percent and 100 percent PERCENT per gram of kohl .

Doctors explained that this percentage of lead is harmful for the eyes , especially in children after it was found that there is a link between using kohl and lead poisoning in children , and the brain disorders it causes because children 's eyes can not produce tears to wash external pollutants out of the eyes . This can cause acute eye infections . They indicated that disorders such as these lead to a 25 % PERCENT increase in the death rate in children . Specialists warned against the false but commonly held belief that kohl improves vision , increases the thickness and strength of eyelashes and makes the eyebrows thicker . They recommended using kohl pencils which are sold in pharmacies , because they contain carbon and iron , both of which do not affects the eye and its health . Something Even More Absurd Than the " Breakneck 90 M/H On a Snowy Night " ?? My Personal Experience . poqi Poster : poqi -LRB- poqi -RRB- , Area : Automobile . Title : Something Even More Absurd Than the " Breakneck 90 M/H On a Snowy Night " ?? My Personal Experience .

Originating site : BBS Unknown Space -LRB- Tue Jan 16 22:51:46 TIME 2007 DATE -RRB- . I have deep feelings and a lot of sympathy with the author after reading the article Breakneck 90 m/h on a Snowy Night . It also reminds me of something that I experienced several years ago DATE , also related to an airport and meeting people . A couple of years ago DATE , my neighbor approached me to borrow my car , saying he was meeting his parents at the airport . He also said both his wife and children wanted to go . As his car was too small and mine was big , it could make his parents more comfortable . He added that he would only use it for one morning TIME and would return it to me before noon . Although there was only a nodding acquaintance between the neighbor and me , we lived in the same apartment building after all and were both Chinese NORP . So I discussed with my wife back home and lent him the car as we thought we would not be using the car until the same afternoon . And then something happened ...

At 1:00pm , the neighbor called me , saying he took his parents to a buffet and would probably not to be back until around 3:00pm . I of course agreed and asked them not to rush . This wait lasted till 5:30pm , when the neighbor told me in a half CARDINAL - crying tone that there was an accident , and everyone else was intact , except his father , who was in hospital for fractures . I comforted him first ORDINAL and asked my friend to rush me to the hospital . My neighbor showed me the police report at the hospital , which indicated it was all my neighbor 's fault . He clashed into a truck going straight when he made a left turn . My car was completely damaged and had been towed away . I forced myself to refrain from the grief of loosing my beloved car -LRB- mine was liability - only coverage -RRB- and asked the friend to send their family home . And then the nightmare began . The next day , my neighbor called me , saying his father needed to undergo an operation in hospital and asked where the money would come from

I told him part would be covered by my car insurance . After a while , he called again , saying the operation charge was high and it was difficult for them to afford I tried my best to comfort him then and told him to think of a way slowly Just then , a nearly crazy voice of a woman came from the other end of the line , saying her family had just saved several dozen thousand bucks MONEY for the down payment of a house ; where would they live afterwards if they spent this . She also said my car was a Japanese NORP one , which had poor safety performance and it was my car to blame for the car accident . She added that I should pay the money because the car was mine . I hung up the phone angrily as the dialog could not go on . My wife -LSB- pw% -RSB- had been persuading me aside , saying some women would easily lose mind once in fury . She asked me to take no heed of them and let them calm down first . So I did n't take their words seriously but still felt angry .

Out of my expectation , a phone call on the third day DATE completely changed my original idea . The telephone rang just as I was about to go to work in the morning . I thought it was a sales call and was prepared to end it perfunctorily . Unexpectedly , coming from the other end of the line was a deep and resolute voice of a middle - aged man . He said in an incontestable tone that my neighbor had a car accident as a result of borrowing my car , which traumatized them both physically and mentally and harmed their economic interests , and as the car owner , they would not sue me if I compensated them for the hospital charge and the costs of missing work hours -LRB- three CARDINAL times -RRB- , otherwise they would see me in court . He added that he was certain about the case as a lawyer in business for ten years DATE and the compensation he requested could double in court . As a great Chinese NORP guy , how could I be scared by a few remarks of the lawyer ? I also took up the weapon of law for justice . Of course , I also retained a lawyer . Out of my expectation , my lawyer solved the problem by merely making two CARDINAL phone calls .

One CARDINAL was to the police station , asking for any additional findings in the investigation report of the accident . There was additional findings unexpectedly , which were against them . Someone at the junk yard found a bottle of unfinished wine without the lid inside the car and reported it to the police station . The police found they put the bottle of unfinished wine in the car without the lid after lunch . The second ORDINAL call was to their lawyer . So their lawyer dropped the lawsuit . Of course , they would not stop it there and came to discuss with me several times , sometimes honey - tongued and sometimes threatening . The most classic one was : Do n't ever dream of living a life back to China GPE , as we have people across the country . Disgusting !

Here comes the old topic again , are you going to lend your car if your neighbor or friend asks . I think many people will say they wo n't . I would suggest not to lend online . However , the Internet is after all virtual . Words sometimes have no emotions . When your seemingly nice neighbor , seemingly close friend , or a girl whose eyes can speak asks for it in the real world , how many people will answer with a " no ? " Anyhow , I was not able to do that . I lent my car to some people in need after that , and I believe there are not many people like my former neighbor couple . In conclusion , here is a summery of the loss of the two CARDINAL sides : . Our side : A 02 Camary of 50,000 miles QUANTITY , retaining fee 200 CARDINAL . Annual leave two days DATE .

Their side : One leg of the father -LRB- repaired -RRB- , hospital charge : unknown , costs for missing work hours : unknown , retaining fee : unknown . And most importantly : the dignity and honor of the entire family -LRB- except children -RRB- . -- * Source : · BBS Unknown Space http://mitbbs.com · -LSB- FROM : 129.137 CARDINAL . -RSB- . Guo Kai 's PERSON Economic Notes : Beijing GPE 's Gas Price vs. US Gas ORG Price Guo Kai 's PERSON Economic Notes In the US GPE the current average price of regular unleaded gas is about 2.3 US dollars MONEY per gallon -LRB- 3.78 CARDINAL liters -RRB- . According to the official exchange rate of one CARDINAL US GPE dollar for 7.9 RMB DATE , this price is equivalent to 4.80 yuan MONEY / liter . Note , this gas price includes all taxes .

The current gas price in Beijing GPE is 5.09 yuan MONEY / liter , 2 CARDINAL mao and 9 fen more than in the US GPE . In fact , the gas price difference between the two CARDINAL places is larger than 2 mao and 9 fen because China GPE 's gas price does not include so many taxes as in the US GPE ; for example , the highway maintenance fee in China GPE is paid separately . Just now , I only narrated a fact . But I believe that different persons see different problems in this fact . Let me describe people 's two CARDINAL reactions that I can imagine , or the two CARDINAL problems I can see . 1 CARDINAL . The US GPE gas price is too cheap . In an absolute sense , the US GPE gas price has +already been cheaper than China GPE 's , and in a relative sense , the US GPE gas price is even cheaper . In the US GPE , the money you pay for a meal at McDonald 's ORG can fill up more than 10 CARDINAL liters of gas , but in Beijing GPE you can get 5 CARDINAL - 6 liters of gas at most . The US GPE low gas price policy has undoubtedly led to this country 's excessive use of and overdependence on energy resources . However , there is more to this matter , the whole world has to share the various negative effects caused by the US GPE excessive energy consumption : global warming , and wars caused by oil , etc.

It is totally a joke that the US GPE gas price could be cheaper than China GPE 's . 2 CARDINAL . China GPE 's gas price is too expensive . Both Americans NORP and Chinese NORP buy gas from the international market , and the technology and cost of oil refinement are not too much different . But with the US GPE gas price including taxes even lower than China GPE 's gas price excluding taxes , you can see how much money Chinese NORP oil companies have made out of this . If there are no price controls and monopolies , China GPE 's gas price should n't have been this high . I want to say that I think these two CARDINAL opinions are both correct . So , on the issue of oil consumption , I think China GPE and the US GPE , the No. 1 CARDINAL and No. 2 CARDINAL oil consumers in the world , are also a funny pair . From a global perspective , the US GPE gas price is obviously too low . So Mankiw at Harvard ORG even formed a " Pigou Club , " gathering social celebrities who support levying higher taxes on gas prices -LRB- hereby raising gas prices -RRB- . China GPE 's gas prices are more complicated .

In fact , gas prices in China GPE are probably not very high , but in order to reduce China GPE 's future overdependence on gas , it may be better that China GPE 's gas prices are higher . But , the direct result of the gas price increase in China GPE will be the increase of monopoly profits of the monopoly companies . This part of money will not become the government tax revenue , will not be used for public welfare , and on the contrary , will only make the benefits of those people working at the monopoly department even better . In other words , the gas price in China GPE is too high in the distributive sense . It is the price that transfers the entire social resources to a very small number of people . But in terms of sustainability , China GPE 's gas price may still be too low . We need high gas prices to control the overdependence on energy imports . Perhaps someone will condemn me , saying further increase of gas prices will make life unbearable for people . If you are a taxi driver , my reply is : the reason your life is unbearable is not the gas price , but because of our taxi licensing regulation system . If you are a car owner , my reply is : ride the subway and bus more often .

It saves money , reduces congestion , and also lets you know car owners are not in a position to say " life is unbearable . " Compared with most people , your life is already quite good . darling0823 Comparing McDonald 's in the US GPE with McDonald ORG 's in China GPE may not be right . Eating a meal at McDonald 's ORG in the US GPE is more comparable to buying a 5 - yuan MONEY boxed meal in China GPE . Advice to Wu Jinglian PERSON and Others : Killing the Father -- Does You No Good ! . 613305 Posted by -LSB- Little Peng Zhongyi PERSON -RSB- at Jan 3 , 2007 DATE 18:53:26 -LSB- SMS -RSB- -LSB- Tables -RSB- . Advice to Wu Jinglian PERSON and Others : Killing the Father -- Does You No Good ! .

-- Some Thoughts on the Attitude of Benign Inheritance towards Social Reform . A glance at the title , people with a little political sensitivity may roughly understand the core topic of this article : the rule of benign interaction between planned economy and market economy , and between public ownership and private ownership -- because only their relationships are those between a father and a son , and it is only between them are there different conflicts involving " human relations , " " rules " and " science , " as well as bloody wrestling between classes , factions and individuals on the basis of morality and interests . Comparing planned economy and public ownership to a father is tantamount to comparing market economy and private ownership to a son , which holds water principally and historically no matter you put it this way or another . This is because the former two CARDINAL given " fatherhood " are indeed the most essential factors of the national character and institution of the socialist new China GPE , while the latter two dubbed " son " in this article -- are indeed the ideological outcomes derived after the death of China GPE 's founder Comrade Mao Zedong PERSON under tremendous international and domestic political pressures on planned economy and public ownership , which grew into today DATE 's para-system after about 30 years DATE of reform and opening up . Regarding this , the factual development process of political civilization that the Marxist NORP ideology has been increasingly marginalized over the past 30 years DATE or so is a strong evidence . By sorting out the essence of the above historical background and conceptual relationships , we will have a pretty thorough , comprehensive and systematic knowledge framework about the benign inevitable trends and development guidelines of the future society dependent on the rule of society , so that the associated impression captured may be more concrete . Regarding this , my standpoint is : because the socialism underpinned by planned economy , public ownership and the people 's democratic dictatorship is indeed a really " fresh " systemic thing for China GPE in the mid and late 20th century -- without a model or sufficient experience or theories to refer to , no matter how scientific its kernel is , it is hard not to have certain superficial and local problems . However , this should not provide an excuse to overthrow it by fair means or foul , as he is our father and the common choice of millions CARDINAL of laboring people . The fact that it " finally became our national character and main system after over half a century DATE of international and domestic political transformation " is a stronger proof that it is the milestone for a new civilization resulted from the blood and sweat of thousands CARDINAL of proletarian revolutionary martyrs .

Therefore , no matter from the perspective of average citizens or from the standpoint of the founder of the new government , we should respect and develop her on the basis of inheritance , innovation and improvement . Is my opinion above correct ? I believe you will naturally obtain a relatively fair and just conclusion if you could understand and treat the above - mentioned " father " system and " son " system with impartiality and sufficient goodwill . For example , based on the existing institutional cultural heritage in the human history , we could see : the " father " system mentioned herein has the majority in mind or it is established in the fundamental and long - term interests of the majority , as well as the need for sustainable and sound development of the country , the nation , and the overall society -- while the " son " system mentioned herein is ignorant and sick in the company of such behavioral characteristics as exploitation , fraudulence , pernicious influence and robbery . So , we can not urge the son to throttle the essentially healthy and scientific " father " system by fair mean or foul without considering the consequences , because there are problems in its practice and development -- such as state monopoly for purchases and sales , lower efficiency due to centralized management , and inhibition of the will of productivity by undue political pressure resulting from class struggles during the new deal . It is because that will not only make the society increasingly ignorant and sick as it violates the rule of benign social development , distorts normal " human relations " and the ethic and prevalent value and the rule of civilization update rooted in it , but the humanity will retrogress as people 's thoughts and behaviors become increasingly ridiculous . Yes , this is the case . My opinion above is not absurd and delusive at all , because this is true not only in theory , but also to the rule of social development as demonstrated by historical facts , as well as from the perspective of the situation and reality of the country : None of the current " advocates of market economy , private ownership and dictatorship of the bourgeoisie " has established and proposed a new deal " against planned economy , public ownership and dictatorship of the proletariat . " All their criticisms are directed at the developmental symptoms such as " lower efficiency due to centralized management " or " inhibition of the will of productivity by undue political pressure resulting from class struggles during the new deal , " all their proclamations are political attacks and instigation aimed to win over the less than 5 % PERCENT " vested interests , " and their development logic asks the " 95 % PERCENT " laboring people to stay where they are and willingly endure the hard work -- it speaks for itself how empty , ridiculous , sick , ignorant and anti-government it is .

That 's why I want to say to the world and the age by the end of the article : when the father 's toes are injured , we should try our best to treat the foot problem , and open up a new life and embrace health in the principle of respecting human relations , obeying people 's wishes , conforming to science and carrying on the legacy -- if the present capitalist followers frantically urge the son to kill him by all means , the result could only be a tragedy ! And these happen to be the core of the destiny where the capitalist roaders " will inevitably bury themselves due to their ignorance and insanity , and more or less harm the human society ! " At last , I would like to admonish sincerely and earnestly those who blindly oppose , hate and even suppress planned economy , public ownership and dictatorship of the proletariat , especially the " mainstream elite scholars " including Wu Jinglian PERSON , who insist on smearing the " father " to the end : do not treat the " fathers " on which the new civilization is based barbarously , against your conscience and frantically for immediate gains . The result is definitely a tragedy -- because even if you kill the " father , " your felony will be disdained by the age and condemned by the people , which naturally leads to nothing good ! Independent economic and human studies analyst . Brother and companion of conscientious Chinese NORP sons and daughters : Peng Zhongyi PERSON . January 2 , 2007 DATE . Contact for friendship and blame QQ : 22761792 CARDINAL MSN : p...@hotmail.com

email : youyutianshi...@sina.com [] Outer Mongolia Voluntarily Proposes ORG to Return to China : a Conspiracy to Alienate China and Russia GPE ? [] <POSTER> jeffery7373 GPE [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Recently , a message " Mongolian Parliament Proposes to Merge Mongolia LOC into China GPE " is extraordinarily striking . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] It was reported that State Great Hural of Mongolia was currently discussing a proposal about a plan for Mongolia GPE and China GPE to found a federal state . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] The Govi PERSON member first ORDINAL put forward the above plan in the State Social and Economic Development Seminar . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] On October 30 , 2004 DATE , State Great Hural of Mongolia held a special discussion on the establishment of Sino - Mongolian NORP coalition and merger of Mongolia GPE into China GPE . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] During the discussion , the Govi PERSON member proposed to merge Mongolia GPE into China GPE and build a special administrative district like Hong Kong GPE and Macau GPE in China GPE , making Mongolia GPE return to the motherland finally and becoming a part of China GPE . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] As early as 1995 , 2000 and 2002 DATE , there were parliamentary members who kept proposing to join Mongolia GPE with China GPE , but these bills never get discussed due to the resistances .

[ jeffery7373 GPE ] In recent years DATE , Mongolian NORP government faces growing pressure arising from economic hardship . The wealthy life of the Mongolian NORP nationality in places like Erlian NORP in China GPE resulted in strong attractions to herdsmen . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] People including many upper class figures are increasingly attracted by China GPE 's economic growth , particularly the relative prosperity and affluence in Inner Mongolia LOC . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] However , on the other hand China GPE 's ambition to " recapture " Outer Mongolia LOC in its political territory will also be very far away and even nearly impossible . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] First , there are still enormous resistances inside Mongolia against " returning " to China GPE . Moreover , even the form of merger conceived by those " returnists " also has some divergences from China GPE 's will . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Second ORDINAL , international resistances , including those from USA GPE , Japan GPE and particularly Russia GPE , are sure to be very vehement . After all , we still need Russia GPE 's help in our international strategy and defense development . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Third , the response of the Mongolian nationality to this issue can not be ignored either . [jeffery7373] One CARDINAL thing to point out is that the loyalty of China GPE 's Mongolian NORP nationality to their country is unquestionable .

[ jeffery7373 GPE ] If " Tibetan independence " and " Xinjiang GPE independence " may have more or less social foundation among Tibetan GPE and Xinjing people , the so - called " Mongolian independence " is absolutely the mental masturbation of a tiny proportion of Mongolian NORP intellectuals and overseas anti- China GPE powers . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Despite all this , many Mongolian NORP in Inner Mongolia LOC are not willing to see the complete disappearance of an independent Mongolia . I believe such sentiment should be understandable . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Hastily " recapturing " Outer Mongolia LOC may cause resistance among Inner Mongolian people . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Background Information . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] The Great Hural of Mongolia proposed to return to China 43 CARDINAL times . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] In 1921 DATE , the Mongolian NORP people won the revolution and declared independence in July DATE and established a " constitutional monarchy . " [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Following the death of Jebtsundamba in May 1924 DATE , the 1st ORDINAL People 's Great Hural was held in Kulun GPE on November of the same year DATE and declared the abolishment of Constitutional Monarchy ORG and founded the People 's Republic of Mongolia . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] On February 11 , 1945 DATE , the leaders of USA GPE , USSR GPE and UK GPE signed Yalta Agreement ORG that covered the sovereignty of Outer Mongolia LOC . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] In 1946 DATE , the National Government of China ORG recognized the independence of Outer Mongolia LOC .

[ jeffery7373 GPE ] Upon the foundation of the People 's Republic of China ORG , it established its diplomatic relations with China GPE on October 16 , 1949 DATE . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Mongolia GPE is an inland country and borders China GPE and Russia GPE only . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] This determines three CARDINAL types of nation survival strategies , pro- Russia GPE or pro- China GPE or balance among powers . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] At present , Mongolia GPE 's nation survival strategy is balance among powers and seeks the maximum interests for itself . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Prior to the breakdown of the Soviet Union GPE , Mongolia GPE did n't have its own troops and defense was provided by the Soviet Union GPE . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] After the disintegration of the Soviet Union GPE , Mongolia GPE started to build its compulsory service scheme and recruit frontier troops . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] However , Mongolia GPE borders China GPE and Russia GPE only , and even all people are soldiers can not guarantee the 100 percent PERCENT security of its soil . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Thus , it has nearly no military forces . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] In fact , the Soviet Union GPE itself ever considered the incorporation of Mongolia GPE as a union republic seriously and provided permanent defense , but gave it up because of the strong objection from Mongolia GPE . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] The control of Russia GPE over the Far East LOC area was significantly reduced as a result of its domestic weakness .

[ jeffery7373 GPE ] The breakdown of the Soviet Union GPE had huge and far - reaching effects on China GPE , [ jeffery7373 GPE ] and made great contributions to the whole world , [ jeffery7373 GPE ] and benefits Chinese NORP nationalities a lot . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] The military expenditure for the land forces could be transferred to the air and naval forces , and there emerged a growingly powerful air force and blue ocean fleet and a relatively safe and peaceful construction period of several decades DATE , and China GPE can come close to the feasible action that will solve the Taiwan GPE issue indeed , [ jeffery7373 GPE ] and the military science made substantial progress , and the ideologically blank area left as a result of the disintegration of the Soviet Union GPE -LRB- these traditional scope of the Soviet Union 's GPE influence like Iran GPE and Egypt GPE in Middle East LOC , and Cuba GPE , Venezuela GPE and Bolivia GPE in Latin America LOC -RRB- was gained quickly , [ jeffery7373 GPE ] This was impossible to achieve before the disintegration of the Soviet Union GPE . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Meanwhile , it brought a very rare opportunity for Mongolia 's return . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Although the Great Hural of Mongolia proposed to return to China 43 CARDINAL times , China GPE has n't made any positive comments and feedback so far . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Voice . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] It is not the right time for Mongolia 's return . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Firstly , Mongolia GPE 's geographic location is very important and situated between China GPE and Russia GPE . If Mongolia GPE returned to China GPE , it would cast shadow on Sino - Russian NORP relations inevitably and damage the whole situation of the Sino - Russian NORP strategic cooperation . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] In the period of Three CARDINAL Kingdoms , Sun Quan PERSON and Liu Bei PERSON broke their coalition for Jing prefecture .

[ jeffery7373 GPE ] Mongolia GPE has an important strategic location as Jing prefecture . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Both China GPE and Russia GPE develop friendly relations with Mongolia GPE , which has positive impact on the stabilization of Sino - Russian NORP borders and Mongolia GPE 's domestic situation . [ jeffery7373 ORG ] Otherwise , If Mongolia returned , it would make Russia GPE feel facing a great enemy and obstruct the rise of Russia GPE . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] A weak Russia GPE allows USA GPE to concentrate on threatening China GPE , which will undermine the benefits of our great strategy . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Secondly , we are not strong enough . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Among many problems related to the reunification of the motherland , Mongolia GPE has low priority , far less important than Taiwan GPE , Diaoyu Island GPE and South Sea LOC . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] We can not accept Mongolia because of its voluntary return . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Before these problems get solved , the timing of Mongolia 's return can not be mature . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] It is quite simple . If the nation is not strong , we can not get reunified for reunification and lose the great opportunity to develop our strength .

[ jeffery7373 GPE ] Thirdly ORDINAL , Mongolia GPE 's motivation for return is not strong , and its will is not firm and can be suspected to be a kind of speculation . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Nowadays GPE , Mongolia GPE is developing friendly relations with both USA GPE and Japan GPE and conducted joint military exercises with USA GPE , which has troops stationed in Mongolia . All these indicate that Mongolia GPE 's return may be a giant alienating conspiracy , the purpose of which is to make China GPE and Russia GPE suspect each other and fight against each other for Mongolia GPE and lose cooperation and trust . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Fourthly , for China GPE and Russia GPE , they should develop their relations with Mongolia GPE jointly and expel the forces of USA GPE and Japan GPE out of Mongolia . This is what we should do , [ jeffery7373 GPE ] rather than accept Mongolia GPE 's hesitant return blindly . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Offering to ally with Russia GPE , reaching its understanding and developing relations with Mongolia GPE , are our best strategy . [ jeffery7373 GPE ] Therefore , we are patriots but not blind ones . Only if we have strategic thinking , consider the long - term stability and security of the country , and consider the international situations , we can make the best decision . [herobeauty] Which year DATE 's news ? [saite] Without doubt , the strategic location of Mongolia GPE is more important than Taiwan GPE .

[saite] If Mongolia can be recaptured , it deserves high priority . [saite] In fact , the real implacable enemies of China GPE are not the United States GPE but Russia GPE and Japan GPE . [saite] I prefer to give up Taiwan GPE rather than Mongolia . [saite] Recapturing Mongolia LOC can give Russia GPE a fatal strike and meanwhile further secure our geographically strategic environment . [saite] Churchill PERSON ever said there was no friendship but interests between nations . [saite] We do n't need to care about the feeling of Russian NORP . [saite] Actually , we and Russian NORP have been deeply suspicious and jealous of each other all the time , but both remain tacit . [saite] China GPE has to rely on itself to become mighty . [saite] -LRB- In the master piece of jeffery7373 GPE -LRB- midou -RRB- , it is mentioned : -RRB- [saite] : Recently , a message " Mongolian Parliament Proposes to Merge Mongolia LOC into China GPE " is extraordinarily arresting .

It was reported that State Great [saite] : Hural of Mongolia was currently discussing a proposal about a plan for Mongolia GPE and China GPE to found a federal state . The Govi PERSON representative [saite] : first ORDINAL put forward the above plan in the State Social and Economic Development Seminar . On October 30 , 2004 DATE , State Great Hural of Mongolia [saite] : held a special discussion on the establishment of Sino - Mongolian NORP coalition and merger of Mongolia GPE into China GPE . During the discussion , the Govi PERSON member [saite] : proposed to merge Mongolia GPE into China GPE and build a special administrative district like Hong Kong GPE and Macau GPE in China GPE , making Mongolia GPE [saite] : return to the motherland finally and becoming a part of China GPE . [saite] : As early as 1995 , 2000 and 2002 DATE , there were parliamentary members who kept proposing to join Mongolia GPE with China GPE , [saite] : but these bills never get discussed due to the resistances . In recent years DATE , Mongolian NORP government faces growing pressure arising from [saite] : economic hardship . The wealthy life of the Mongolian NORP nationality in places like Erlian NORP in China GPE resulted in strong attractions to herdsmen . People including [saite] : many upper class figures are increasingly attracted by China GPE 's economic growth , particularly the relative prosperity and affluence in Inner Mongolia LOC . [wonderlich] Hehe , " Is the strategic location of Mongolia GPE more important than Taiwan GPE " ? [wonderlich] -LRB- In the master piece of saite -LRB- saite -RRB- , it is mentioned : -RRB-

[wonderlich] : Without doubt , the strategic location of Mongolia GPE is more important than Taiwan GPE . [wonderlich] : If Mongolia can be recaptured , it deserves high priority . [wonderlich] : In fact , the real implacable enemies of China GPE are not the United States GPE but Russia GPE and Japan GPE . [wonderlich] : I prefer to give up Taiwan GPE rather than Mongolia . [wonderlich] : Recapturing Mongolia LOC can give Russia GPE a fatal strike and meanwhile further secure our geographically strategic environment . [wonderlich] : Churchill PERSON ever said there was no friendship but interests between nations . [wonderlich] : We do n't need to care about the feeling of Russian NORP . [wonderlich] : Actually , we and Russian NORP have been deeply suspicious and jealous of each other all the time , but both remain tacit . [wonderlich] : China GPE has to rely on itself to become mighty . [viamedia] hehe .

[viamedia] -LRB- In the master piece of wonderlich -LRB- Left bank , reclusion -RRB- , it is mentioned : -RRB- [viamedia] : Hehe , " Is the strategic location of Mongolia GPE more important than Taiwan GPE " ? [wonderlich] The current status of Outer Mongolia LOC is an optimal status for all powers . [wonderlich] As for Taiwan GPE , should China GPE want to " rise " , it must solve Taiwan GPE problem first ORDINAL . [wonderlich] -LRB- In the master piece of viamedia -LRB- Mens conscia recti -RRB- , it is mentioned : -RRB- [wonderlich] : hehe . [viamedia] nod . [viamedia] Sea GPE is more important than land . [viamedia] Take back Taiwan GPE , and Japanese NORP will become well - behaved . [viamedia] The United States GPE has to withdraw its defense line to the third ORDINAL island chain .